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Old 10-07-2014, 15:14   #121
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
Would it make a difference to you if you found out that they were not asking for any money for themselves? According to the video, they are asking for the federal gov't to be reimbursed for the cost of the rescue. I discovered that while, surprise, watching the video.
Shouldn't it be the government who is suing, then?
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Old 10-07-2014, 15:27   #122
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

In life, a person has a choice in all endeavors, great and small, to accept or deny personal responsibility. The attitude you embrace defines the essence and quality of your character.
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Old 10-07-2014, 15:33   #123
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Shouldn't it be the government who is suing, then?
I believe you are correct. They do not have proper standing to sue for the government. They can only sue for themselves.

It would be like me trying to sue someone who has done you an injustice.

I CAN sue (file) but it would be thrown out at the first level.
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Old 10-07-2014, 15:50   #124
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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what I don't understand in all this is what "change of service provider". If you have an Iridium phone , there is only one provider, Iridium. All the SIM cards are iridiums. Maybe these cheap sat phones stores are resellers of resellers. if so run away in my view.


dave

So, I just changed out to our new SIM card that says "Iridium everywhere" on it. The old SIM card just says "Iridium" on it with a bunch of numbers. It works! I called our "phone" provider and asked why our service got shut off while I was crossing oceans. Did you change service providers? She just started mumbling things that didn't make sense. Hiding something? I just don't know. We've been using them for 8 years at $700 per year for 500 min's. Seems mngment changed a lot this last year.
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Old 10-07-2014, 16:11   #125
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
what I don't understand in all this is what "change of service provider". If you have an Iridium phone , there is only one provider, Iridium. All the SIM cards are iridiums. Maybe these cheap sat phones stores are resellers of resellers. if so run away in my view.


dave
I don't understand it either. A while back I was considering getting a sat phone. I went to maybe a half a dozen web sites and had a hard time understanding just what my coin of the realm would be buying.

There have been several threads at CF on the topic of sat phones and if some of the posters can be trusted they do work and do provide utility to their users. I got the impression for the most part they work if there is some effort on the users' part.

I also got the impression the best choice for me would be something like a SPOT which pings GPS locations at regular intervals and under some plans allows limited text messages, along with the ability to press a button that sends an EPIRB like message. There also seems to be computer like advances in these communication devices with cheaper prices and neater looking hardware.

To some extent I get the impression RH was sorta on the tail end of a tec bubble and newer devices may be much better than what he was using with much less chance for a glitch like he suffered.

Also wondering just what his contract said and who it was with. It could be that some of the resellers don't have enough assets to survive any adverse judgement.
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Old 10-07-2014, 16:28   #126
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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One issue I have not seen mentioned relates to the details concerning how notice of the SIM card change was (or maybe was not) communicated to customers and what the contract said about a contact address to communicate such details.
In other threads Eric stated they sent it to their PO bOx (or whatever) 12 days before departure.

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The way I see it, they used the phone for 2 people blogging for 2 weeks...that's a bunch of data. They don't give away data or minutes. Iridium is $795 for 500 minutes (or close to that). I'm guessing they went through their data big time, and I wouldn't expect the company to just give them free data. Therefore, no case.
Although Eric had many billing issues - related in posts here. This wasn't a billing cut-off.

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In this case, its more questionable and probably comes down to what is reasonable. I think its unreasonable to rely 100% on a satellite phone

<snip>

In the end though who knows what a Jury might decide if it gets to that. Frankly if I was on it, I wouldn't side with Rebel Heart - you make a choice to go out in a boat and away from services..etc you take all the risk that goes with it. It sucks that had the sat phone worked that things might have been fine, but that's the way it goes. Gotta live with the choices you make and results that come from them.
Eric has stated here the he didn't consider the sat phone "emergency" equipment and he only had it for his "work"

It's been stated that this goes to a jury of non-lawyers. Jury selection would be a nightmare.

One party wants people who hold "big business" accountable. The other party looking for soccer moms who think taking kids to sea is negligent.

The idea that one can go the the mall, buy a phone, go 1,000 miles off-shore, press speed dial #1 if it "gets to be too much to handle" is disheartening.

Again this isn't about Eric's journey. This is about Eric's loss.

"If the sat phone was working would Eric have lost his boat?"

But exploring the Sat Phone provider responsibilities - They mailed a new SIM card to the address provided by Eric 12 or more days prior to departure.

What duty does the Satphone provider have for replacement of the SIM card? One month? Two months? Do they have to wait until Eric comes up on grid with the new sim card installed?

Anyone who works in IT knows what it is like to do a system upgrade - there are folks who never do what they are supposed to so you gotta have a cut off date.

Eric states they never communicated the change by email, but they do communicate billing. If the sat phone company did not notify by email, I think they should have - it's a gap. But I don't know they had a duty to do so.
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Old 10-07-2014, 16:30   #127
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

https://gma.yahoo.com/parents-rescue...parenting.html

Listen to the part about getting the phone company to pay back the taxpayers for the rescue AND replace the boat. The one "that was intentionally sunk after it was damaged in the journey"...by the phone company's negligence...I suppose.

Damn phone company...who "cut off their only connection to land"...on a 3,000+ mile ocean journey.

(This is going to be ugly.)
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Old 10-07-2014, 16:31   #128
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

My take on this is that regardless of RH's condition and many other factors that led to them abandoning the vessel that what the SAT phone company did was simply wrong. It was completely mis-managed and poorly communicated and as a result a difficult situation escalated into a life threatening situation that cost not only RH's their home and all their worldly posessions but also cost the US Government a great deal of money. IMHO the SAT phone company should not be let off the hook for that. To many times in my life have I seen the "big" guy get away with robbing the little guy blind simply because the little guy doesn't have the resources or will to fight back... And of course that leads to the "big" guys thinking they are untoucable which leads to more problems and mistakes like this. If they get away with this this time then what will they try to get away with next time knowing that? Because trust me these businesses care more about their beans than they do their customers and if they can save a few beans they will do that irregardless of what impact it may have on their customers. Sure the supposed free market in this country would in theory work out issues like this on its own but that is in a perfect economic text book free market, something we are far far from especially when you consider niche services like this where the cost of entry into the market is incredibly high and it is unlikely that someone will quickly and easily come into the market to replace a company who has grown an ego that's a bit too big for everyone's taste instead it will always be the consumer who suffers with worse and worse service and higher and higher prices.

I say good for RH for standing up for themselves and atleast trying to make these business who take advantage of their customers every single day more accountable for their actions. Because to me that is what this is really about, if it was me in RH's shoes I would care less about the money involved in the lawsuit and more about someone somewhere standing up and admitting to the world that they screwed up.
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Old 10-07-2014, 16:37   #129
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

OK - For those who want "big business to pay."

Think about this. If Eric gets a judgment, and the government gets paid (although I haven't heard they are joining the suit - LOL) the "big business" isn't going to pay.

Anyone who subscribes to satphonestore.com service is going to pay. Through higher fees. That may mean you and me.

It's an inference on my part but in all probability, Eric did not have insurance covering loss of his boat.

A sat phone is not an insurance policy. If Eric wanted to insure his journey, he should have.
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Old 10-07-2014, 16:43   #130
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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My take on this is that regardless of RH's condition and many other factors that led to them abandoning the vessel that what the SAT phone company did was simply wrong.
Even if it was wrong, are they really responsible for the loss of the boat? Whos' to say something else may not have happened? That a Dr. may have simply said they could give any further recommendations without seeing the child?

I just hate that we are in a society where it is always about finding someone to blame. Sometimes you just need to look in the mirror.
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Old 10-07-2014, 16:55   #131
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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In other threads Eric stated they sent it to their PO bOx (or whatever) 12 days before departure.



Although Eric had many billing issues - related in posts here. This wasn't a billing cut-off.

SNIP
Eric states they never communicated the change by email, but they do communicate billing. If the sat phone company did not notify by email, I think they should have - it's a gap. But I don't know they had a duty to do so.
Not quite the same thing but I spent a couple of months in the Dry Tortugas. When I got back to the harbor I went to Publix and my credit card was declined with I tried to pay for the food. I did have other cards (the one I use has the best bonus points) so it was not a real problem.

Next day I checked my email and there was a notice from the CC company time stamped just after I left that due the the Harbor Freight (I really need adult supervision when I go in that store) being hacked my CC was being replaced and a new one had been mailed to my condo a few hundred miles away.

Lesson learned, when you are cruising you don't really have a mailing address that allows quick access to important mail. I guess if I had the Green Cove Springs mail service and internet connectivity it would be better.

But in this case if the SIM card was sent 12 days before RH left it is hard for me to see how Eric gets any relief from the courts. To some extent I am not sure he could get relief even if it was mailed after he left since all parties in a contract have an obligation (maybe even an affirmative obligation if they are embarking on a risky cruise) to be communicate. I could see the sat phone company saying RH had an obligation to notify them of his change of mailing address in case a SIM card needed to be mailed to him.

Given what some folks would say was the poorly maintained boat he was sailing on a case could be made that his sat phone was also poorly maintained.
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Old 10-07-2014, 16:57   #132
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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Even if it was wrong, are they really responsible for the loss of the boat? Whos' to say something else may not have happened? That a Dr. may have simply said they could give any further recommendations without seeing the child?

I just hate that we are in a society where it is always about finding someone to blame. Sometimes you just need to look in the mirror.
Never said they were. Nor do I think they really should be on the hook for millions of dollars or whatever it comes to be. I'm more of an apology type of person. Admit you are wrong and tell me what you are going to do to keep it from happening again and we shall part ways but rarely does that ever happen without a lawsuit being filed.

If I did the same action at my job which left my customers without service when they needed it without any notice I certainly would be held accountable and have to give an explanation and even more likely is I would be fired. Yes eric can effectively "fire" them as a carrier but the problem with companies that size is that they really won't even notice which means their actions will go without any consequences ultimately.
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Old 10-07-2014, 17:06   #133
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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SNIP

If I did the same action at my job which left my customers without service when they needed it without any notice


SNIP
Then it would be different than what happened here since the company sent the SIM card twelve days before RH left.
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Old 10-07-2014, 17:09   #134
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew suing.....

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A lot of speculations here about RH intent to suit the integrity of your soapbox. You sound more like Ted Nugent and less like a person of the sailing community.



Even a bad lawyer would...
I stand by my comments and prefer to let my number of miles speak more than my number of posts
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Old 10-07-2014, 17:27   #135
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Re: Rebel Heart Crew Suing.....

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My take on this is that regardless of RH's condition and many other factors that led to them abandoning the vessel that what the SAT phone company did was simply wrong. It was completely mis-managed and poorly communicated and as a result a difficult situation escalated into a life threatening situation that cost not only RH's their home and all their worldly posessions but also cost the US Government a great deal of money. IMHO the SAT phone company should not be let off the hook for that. To many times in my life have I seen the "big" guy get away with robbing the little guy blind simply because the little guy doesn't have the resources or will to fight back... And of course that leads to the "big" guys thinking they are untoucable which leads to more problems and mistakes like this. If they get away with this this time then what will they try to get away with next time knowing that? Because trust me these businesses care more about their beans than they do their customers and if they can save a few beans they will do that irregardless of what impact it may have on their customers. Sure the supposed free market in this country would in theory work out issues like this on its own but that is in a perfect economic text book free market, something we are far far from especially when you consider niche services like this where the cost of entry into the market is incredibly high and it is unlikely that someone will quickly and easily come into the market to replace a company who has grown an ego that's a bit too big for everyone's taste instead it will always be the consumer who suffers with worse and worse service and higher and higher prices.

I say good for RH for standing up for themselves and atleast trying to make these business who take advantage of their customers every single day more accountable for their actions. Because to me that is what this is really about, if it was me in RH's shoes I would care less about the money involved in the lawsuit and more about someone somewhere standing up and admitting to the world that they screwed up.
I am positive that if the company apologized the suit would be dropped immediately. The lawyer will take 50% of the apology and RH can buy a new boat with the other 50%.
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