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View Poll Results: Is throwing a message in a glass bottle overboard littering?
Yes, it's litter. 22 27.85%
No, it's not litter. 57 72.15%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-08-2014, 12:26   #31
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
...

I'd close this thread to comments if I could, and just leave the poll open. I don't want to start another flame war, and I'm not interested in comments, I'm only interested in the results of the poll. Let your vote speak for you, without additional foaming at the mouth, on either side, please.
And you thought that would work? ;-)
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:43   #32
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Never heard of nor seen evidence of marine critters eating glass, problems with plastics I've seen first hand many times. Got a reference for the glass eating issue?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0416214912.htm
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Old 06-08-2014, 13:09   #33
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

I hate litter and I mean hate with a capital H.

Toilet paper on the sea floor is particularly disgusting. Rather than photographing anchors perhaps I should name and shame

However, I think we may be getting a bit paranoid. I often pick up litter on deserted beaches. Old flip flops, plastic bags, plastic drink bottles. Unfortunately often dropped by careless people who think someone else will clean up their mess. More than I can realistically collect, so mine is minor effort.

Messages in a bottle never, and frankly it would be a great change. Let's worry about the big problem, not the small stuff.
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Old 06-08-2014, 14:09   #34
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post

I'd close this thread to comments if I could, and just leave the poll open. I don't want to start another flame war, and I'm not interested in comments, I'm only interested in the results of the poll. Let your vote speak for you, without additional foaming at the mouth, on either side, please.
The poll is completely pointless without context. Political pollster's love to create these kinds of polls where they phrase the question to get the answer they want and then spin the results to prove thier point.

It's the messy details that tell the real story but it's much harder to make firm statements when those details are floating around.
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Old 06-08-2014, 15:46   #35
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
I voted yes. Let's try a different angle. Would throwing a bottle overboard without a message be littering? Legally and morally I would hope most would say yes? In the end they both have the same environmental impact.
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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I voted Yes as it is.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't do it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Yes, tossing a message in a glass bottle is legalistically "litter", but does zero environmental harm so I am OK with the practice.
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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
Strictly speaking a message in a bottle is litter. But that's just being pedantic.
Sailing the old boat is not littering.
Leaving the old boat in the mud to rot is littering.

Dropping the old pieces of metal on the street side is littering.
Creating the work of art of old pieces of metal and exposing it on the street side is not littering.

Dropping emptied bottles into the water is littering.
Sending the message to yet unknown person using the traditional "bottle post" is not littering.

Etc, etc, etc...
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Old 06-08-2014, 16:32   #36
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

It's litter...................

and who says glass litter is better litter than plastic litter?

When I was in 9th grade, I was a 5'6" tall, 6' highjumper. I was a 6-1/2' highjumper in the summer after 10th grade. I could jump-reach(with the aid of 1 foot on the wall) over 13 feet.

In 10th grade I was an 11 second sprinter, a 20' longjumper and an over 10' standing jumper. I ran all the sprints from 100 yd to 440 yd

I was a tournament tennis player and a football player.

When I was 9 years old (5th grade), I had stepped on some eco-friendly litter ... glass bottle, on the beach.

By the time I was a senior I was jumping 5-8"(only jumped 5'6" most the season). I was a 12.6 second sprinter in 11th grade and a 19-1/2' long jumper too boot ... best was gone.

For the past 50 pllus years I have had great pain in my left foot instep ... my jumpfoot ... the foot I stepped on the eco-friendly glass bottle. It's gotten much worse in the past 15 years.

I have been disabled for the past 4 years(foot), and am now retired ... because of that eco-friendly glass bottle.

coulda, woulda, shoulda ... %&#%* eco-friendly glass bottle.

The injury evidently cut into my tendon(my instep), and I have had nothing but problems since. According to my doctor, the tendon almost done for and we're trying not to operate.

It's litter if it's not out there because of a life threatening need. One doesn't need to "practice", messages in a bottle ... plastic, glass or otherwise.
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Old 06-08-2014, 17:18   #37
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

it basically is litter, unless that definition doesn't work for you

seems pretty simple
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Old 06-08-2014, 17:33   #38
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

I am sticking with, "It is surface mail" - and yes message (at least one) was delivered.

Wonder how many pieces of mail USPS loses every year? Is that litter somewhere?
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Old 06-08-2014, 17:41   #39
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky View Post
Sailing the old boat is not littering.
Leaving the old boat in the mud to rot is littering.

Dropping the old pieces of metal on the street side is littering.
Creating the work of art of old pieces of metal and exposing it on the street side is not littering.

Dropping emptied bottles into the water is littering.
Sending the message to yet unknown person using the traditional "bottle post" is not littering.

Etc, etc, etc...

Legally it's litter, morally.....that's up to you.
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Old 14-08-2014, 09:30   #40
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

IMO, No it's not......

Message in a Bottle: With a USB Stick Inside? | Cruising Compass

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Old 14-08-2014, 15:38   #41
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

If you flush Poo-pourri into the sea..... Is that a MARPOL Violation?
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Old 14-08-2014, 15:42   #42
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
For the purposes of the poll how is "liter" defined?
1000 milliliters
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Old 14-08-2014, 15:50   #43
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

So there seems to be a definite faction who believe that using the glass bottle to transmit a message is a loftier endeavor than simply being a pig and throwing an empty bottle overboard for convenience. Socially redeeming graces, and so forth. One man's litter is another man's postal service. Someone wrote a book and lots of people made money from a movie about it.

So, what's the difference if it's an empty bottle with a label stuck to it? That's a piece of paper with a message too, isn't it?
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Old 14-08-2014, 17:46   #44
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

Litter is an improperly disposed of waste product. An empty bottle is a waste product.

A message in a bottle is an item specifically created to carry a message via the ocean. It's has been put overboard for a specific purpose. While it is doing what it was made to do, it is not litter as it is not a waste product. It's an item with a specific purpose.

Once the purpose is achieved or not longer possible, such as if the bottle is found or if it breaks, then it becomes an improperly disposed of waste product and is litter.


What makes it litter or not is the purpose behind an items creation.



There is a separate issue of whether the creation of a message in a bottle is worth the risk that it could harm the environment, animals or people. There is also the risk that it could become litter.


But whether or not it is worth the risks to create and launch a message in a bottle, it is not litter while it is performing that task.
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Old 14-08-2014, 17:55   #45
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Re: Message In A Bottle: Litter?

I think the real reason you hear a push back on environmental criticisms of things like this.....
Is because...It just simply offends the majority of environmentally responsible sailors.. who dislike being dictated to by the Eco-Police

Preaching to the converted is much easier than confronting the many many millions who irresponsibly litter everywhere or deystroy the forests and seas in the name of profit!

I have never thrown a bottle overboard, but I have no problem.... if a father wanted to engage his young son with the magic of currents and the science of water integrity against the power of the Sea..... Releasing a messaged bottle... is a shared memory

I view it as a one time special thing that serves a higher purpose than listening to the Eco-Police.
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