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Old 10-04-2018, 16:45   #1
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Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

We have sailed 1/2 way around the world from Europe and have always been charged for Boat length (a fair system) in marinas: Now we are in New Zealand we are a little surprised to be charged per Berth Length -

As we are just (10 cm) over the average 12m berth our fees have significantly increased.

There's a 'Marina Association' here in New Zealand that provides advice to the marinas how to maximise their profits, rules, standard contracts, which is where this charging model advice has come from, But there does not yet seem to be a New Zealand wide 'Berth-holders association' that could keep the 'Marinas Association' charges, rules in check.

Are there many other countries that charge per Berth Length?

It seems the UK is the same?

Thanks.
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Old 10-04-2018, 17:00   #2
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

Most marinas in the US seem to charge transient boaters by LOA and annual renters by the larger of LOA and Berth. Seems fair, if you're taking up the space, then they can't lease it to another (larger) vessel.
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Old 10-04-2018, 17:40   #3
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

I have a 40' catamaran which is 22.5' wide.
We had to pay for a 60' berth to accommodate our beam.
We squeezed in with an inch to spare.
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Old 10-04-2018, 17:45   #4
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

Unfortunately NZ hasn't realised that last bit LOA OR Berth Length, which means we have to be in a 14m berth for 10 cm over 12, or pull the bow roller, totally ridiculous.

Thanks for your input Scott, I understand your argument; but to be successful a business needs to be customer focused not profit driven, which means that they have failed if they don't have enough berths of the correct size, which should be (in the case you stated) a small business loss for not getting their customers requirements correct.

There is also no real market forces yet in the NZ marina business to correct the imbalances between the customers and the business, which is what NZ is seeing in the 'Marina Association' charge model, rules, standards etc. Competition for customers in Europe is very strong and there is a lot more customer focus.
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Old 10-04-2018, 18:39   #5
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailabroad View Post
Unfortunately NZ hasn't realised that last bit LOA OR Berth Length, which means we have to be in a 14m berth for 10 cm over 12, or pull the bow roller, totally ridiculous.

Thanks for your input Scott, I understand your argument; but to be successful a business needs to be customer focused not profit driven, which means that they have failed if they don't have enough berths of the correct size, which should be (in the case you stated) a small business loss for not getting their customers requirements correct.

There is also no real market forces yet in the NZ marina business to correct the imbalances between the customers and the business, which is what NZ is seeing in the 'Marina Association' charge model, rules, standards etc. Competition for customers in Europe is very strong and there is a lot more customer focus.

Probably because in NZ (at least Auckland and north) there are more boats looking for berths than the other way around.

And why is being too long for a 12m berth (regardless of by how little) so having to be in and paying for a 14m berth unfair? It still works out to paying for the larger of LOA and berth. You are using the entire berth and it can’t be rented to anyone else.
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Old 10-04-2018, 18:57   #6
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

Thanks for your input fxykty

There is of course the customer focused position the Marina could take - that is if i am slightly over and as this is of no real danger imagined or otherwise hindrance, i could remain in the 12 M berth and be charged as per LOA (as Scott has suggestion happens in the USA) without any 14M berth being occupied, and therefore no profit lost to the company.

'fair' or 'unfair' is not how the marina businesses in NZ operates, and not what I am suggesting.

I think (u might disagree) any business that wants to remain in business needs to meet it's customers requirements - If they don't have the correct size they have failed their customers - In this case at some point down the track there will be information passed around,(i.e internet forum discussions, reviews etc), or a collective action, or just more competition - or one marina that acts in a flexible way (this is already happening in some places where occupancy is lowish), which will sideline businesses that are not customer focused inflexible etc.

There was a marina boom in Europe where funds came from the central government in an attempt to kickstart businesses in poorer regions, this seems to be happening in NZ!? lots of new marina projects going on at the moment, and expansions etc..
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Old 10-04-2018, 19:55   #7
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

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Old 10-04-2018, 21:10   #8
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

A marina here in Hervey Bay Queensland started pulling that trick this year and charging an extra $15 a week for a carpark space. The funny thing is our berth was only ten meters long but the marina said they can have another 20% of the boat hanging out past the dock. So our berth went from $1400 every three months to $2000 for a 12 meter berth! We moved to another marina where we get charged for a 10 meter boat and our berth is 10 meters long plus free carparking.
The annoying thing was that they had a waiting list for 10 meter berths so they could not even move us. Not that we wanted to be moved as we would have only got a eight meter berth with two meters hanging out.
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Old 10-04-2018, 23:48   #9
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

You mention UK being similar to NZ with regard to berthing fees.
Vast majority of marinas in UK charge on boat length. Some have set charges for say boats under 6m, boats 6 to 10m, 10 to 15m etc, but most have a set price per meter.
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Old 11-04-2018, 00:22   #10
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

Interesting,

Our home base Marina switched to that same billing method this year and it has infuriated a number of boat owners.
I have been occupying the same 65' berth for 10 years for my 62‘ boat.
In January they started billing based on berth rating saying this same berth can accommodate a 75' boat.

Member Price went from Php12,500/month to Php 27k
So I moved to a smaller 55ft berth, which they rate at 65ft and charge Php16k.

Now the marina looks ridiculous.... all the larger berths empty and the smaller ones crowded with 10ft overhangs and poor tie up leads

All this has done is to motivate me to leave this marina and go cruising. Normally I would pay annually to reserve my dock, but no more.....
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:52   #11
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

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but to be successful a business needs to be customer focused not profit driven
.
Never ran a business have you?

Profits always come first. Owners who are not profit focused go bankrupt.

No you can't abuse your customers and expect to remain profitable but bottom line if profits aren't there your business will not be a success.

Nothing unfair about it. If you don't like the price (not pricing method) go elsewhere. If enough people go elsewhere profits will go down and they will either lower their price or go bankrupt. If you just sit there paying while pissing and moaning, expect the prices to go up some more.
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:49   #12
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

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Never ran a business have you?

Profits always come first. Owners who are not profit focused go bankrupt.

No you can't abuse your customers and expect to remain profitable but bottom line if profits aren't there your business will not be a success.

Nothing unfair about it. If you don't like the price (not pricing method) go elsewhere. If enough people go elsewhere profits will go down and they will either lower their price or go bankrupt. If you just sit there paying while pissing and moaning, expect the prices to go up some more.
Colourful opinion valhalla360, Obviously you do not recognise the irony of your first comment?

Anyways It would be very interesting to hear your 'Very professional' opinion on how a/your? business? attracts new customers, with an established bad reputation, while also suffering quite a high attrition rate?

Thanks for your input.
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Old 11-04-2018, 04:15   #13
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

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Colourful opinion valhalla360, Obviously you do not recognise the irony of your first comment?

Anyways It would be very interesting to hear your 'Very professional' opinion on how a/your? business? attracts new customers, with a bad reputation, while also suffering quite a high attrition rate?

Thanks for your input.
Nope, I fully understand the interplay of customer service and profit. If you read my full response, I addressed the issue of abusing customers but in the end profit rules...sure, you need to consider the long term profit implications (ie: if you abuse customers, they may eventually leave) but it always comes back to profit (heck look at the airlines, they love to abuse customers but they know you don't have a choice, so they don't care).

You just failed to demonstrate a case that customers are being abused. The pricing scheme wasn't hidden or somehow used to trick you. You just don't like the price.

Either you accept the price for a slip or you don't. If enough people don't like it and they go elsewhere, the owner will react (or go bankrupt). More likely people just sit around complaining and the owner makes nice profits.

Reminds me of a marina we were at years back. The manager didn't know what she was doing and caused all kinds of problems. Everyone loved to sit around complaining every weekend about it...yet they were shocked when we moved to a different marina because we didn't buy a boat and rent a slip to sit around and complain during our time off.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:15   #14
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

"look at the airlines, they love to abuse customers"

The airlines in NZ through competition have been forced to become very customer focused, excellent service, cheap flights, cheap extra baggage, many options that people want or can choose - check out AIRNZ options if u are in doubt?

But unfortunately as i mentioned in my first post (easily forgotten) these free market forces that have been excellent for airlines do not exist for marinas (IN NZ) - for many reasons(cannot be bothered explaining) - not only is the "Marina Association" actively trying to remove competition there are other factors that don't exist in Europe.

So It's a kind of business monopoly (illegal in NZ? EU yes) where "If you don't like it you can leave" situation does not exist - Not really "Trickery"

Anyways not sure if this is really pointlessly off topic, probably.
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Old 11-04-2018, 05:51   #15
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Re: Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

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But unfortunately as i mentioned in my first post (easily forgotten) these free market forces that have been excellent for airlines do not exist for marinas (IN NZ) - for many reasons(cannot be bothered explaining) - not only is the "Marina Association" actively trying to remove competition there are other factors that don't exist in Europe.

So It's a kind of business monopoly (illegal in NZ? EU yes) where "If you don't like it you can leave" situation does not exist - Not really "Trickery"

Anyways not sure if this is really pointlessly off topic, probably.
Nope, it's common for there to be limited marinas in an area...the result is prices go up.

This is supply and demand not a monopoly.
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