Country? Berth cost, Boat Length or Berth Length?

[Dave22q]

Marinas are generally expensive real estate. If operators get rich its by redeveloping not operations. Whining about posted slip pricing seems silly to me. If the price offends you go elsewhere!

[ArmyDaveNY]

As a boat owner and a businessman I see both sides of the argument, but it essentially works out the same. What's the difference between $10 per foot of berth length versus $12 per foot for LOA? The owner has to make a certain profit. If they charged you per foot LOA, the per foot change would likely be higher than if the charged you per foot for the total berth length.

What seems to be new is that the pricing method changed. Most likely if they used the same pricing as before, the per foot charge would have gone up. It seems probable that the price you pay was going up either way. It is also possible that pricing per berth simplifies their billing.

Think of if as parking in a car park. If you drive something practical like a Jetta or a Polo, you still pay the same rate as a full size sedan. Occasionally the have a rate for a micro car, a rate for a mid size, and a rate for SUVs, but the result is the same; you are paying per space.

[foufou]

Seems to me if isn't how the rent is calculated but whether it is reasonable for the area. My berth rent is calculated by square feet. But it is very reasonable

[SaltyMetals]

Solution? Get a really good anchor and go outside in the bay for free!

In europe it is mostly charged by LOA. While my boat is actually 13.2 m the registration doc says 12.85 m so most of the time i only get charged for 12.85 m.. in fact one marina in Croatia asked me my length to which i replied 13m and he said "was that 12m for your length?" No! I said , it is 13m
"Nice day today isn't it" he says. "I will charge you for 12.m." the saving helps pay for a few beers....ķ

[hamburking]

Our municipal marinas here in Kingston Ontario Canada changed a few years ago. They now charge for LOA or dock length, whichever is MORE. Also, it is not "boat spec" LOA, it is supposed to include protruding bow anchors, swim platforms, and davits, which can add a few feet to your true LOA. And if you keep a dinghy in the water next to your boat, they add that length on as well.

When I had a 25 foot boat, they wanted me at a 10 foot dock. When I had a 35 foot boat, they gave me an 18 foot dock. The municipal marinas here are run by office pencil pushers who have never seen a boat and are only interested in maximizing profit. Actually, they have so many over paid middle managers that they actually run a loss each year. They take the loss and make an increase to the fees in hopes of making a profit. However, as the price goes up and up, and the service goes down and down, more and more boats are leaving. Such a waste. The marina used to have a 5 year waiting list to get in. Now the place is more than half empty most of the time, the exception being summer long weekends when transients fill the place for a few nights paying ridiculous rates. Yes, I sound bitter, because I am. I like sailing and they are making it more and more difficult to own a boat around here.

[Shrew]

In the northeastern US I have been charged by LOA for both transient slips and seasonal slips. I've never been charged for slip length for a transient slip, unless I requested a much larger slip than is necessary. I have been charged for slip length for a seasonal slip many, many times.

It depends on the individual marina.

[Tillsbury]

I love the idea of there being competition. Here in Christchurch, NZ (population 400,000) there hasn't been a marina since 2000, and the nearest one is 200 miles away. Finally we are getting one, with what I think are very reasonable charges (although the locals are complaining of course). Length is charged per berth in jumps of 2m, and the entire boat has to fit between the end piles visually, so davits and anchors are counted. Makes for very simple checking that everyone has the right berth length. A 14m berth is NZ$7800 (US$5700, GBP4000) pa which sounds pretty fair to me for a very high quality pontoon and security. It's inside significant breakwaters in a good position in the harbour, so well protected.

Needless to say, the marina is pretty much full even though it doesn't officially open until May. I'd guess that prices are likely to go up.

What's appealing is that although an assortment of marina operators and various groups have been trying to build a marina alongside the council for many years, it was finally up to the port operator to do it entirely themselves. So we are under a significant commercial port company rather than a marina operating company. I'm guessing that will make a difference, but I'm not sure how yet.

[George DuBose]

Am I ever happy to be in The Netherlands. I keep my 11 meter boat in a 5 Gold Anchor marina. I pay by the square meter of the boat, length x beam. This is one of the nicest marinas I have ever stayed or visited and the harbormasters really look after the facilities and the customers' boats.

1500 euros for the season with free water and electricity, 1500 euros to rent a cradle and have the mast removed and stored indoors for the winter and if I stay in the water for the five month winter that's 400 euros.

The prices in the UK and what I am hearing from you Kiwis make me want to cry.

[robertmmcdermot]

Originally Posted by sailabroad

Thanks for your input fxykty

There is of course the customer focused position the Marina could take - that is if i am slightly over and as this is of no real danger imagined or otherwise hindrance, i could remain in the 12 M berth and be charged as per LOA (as Scott has suggestion happens in the USA) without any 14M berth being occupied, and therefore no profit lost to the company.

'fair' or 'unfair' is not how the marina businesses in NZ operates, and not what I am suggesting.

I think (u might disagree) any business that wants to remain in business needs to meet it's customers requirements - If they don't have the correct size they have failed their customers - In this case at some point down the track there will be information passed around,(i.e internet forum discussions, reviews etc), or a collective action, or just more competition - or one marina that acts in a flexible way (this is already happening in some places where occupancy is lowish), which will sideline businesses that are not customer focused inflexible etc.

There was a marina boom in Europe where funds came from the central government in an attempt to kickstart businesses in poorer regions, this seems to be happening in NZ!? lots of new marina projects going on at the moment, and expansions etc..

The problem is: what's the cutoff for the next sized berth? 10cm over, 20cm over, 50cm over, etc.
Once you establish such a cutoff, say 50cm over, then someone who is "just over" that cutoff will feel penalized, and say "but, I'm 55cm over, which is only 5cm beyond the limit".
No matter how you establish the cutoff, any "stepped increase" system is going to appear unfair to someone who's "just over" the cutoff.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by George DuBose

The prices in the UK and what I am hearing from you Kiwis make me want to cry.

Don't feel too bad for us. For an 11m boat here you'd only be paying 3600 euros a year, which is not too far away from your figures. More importantly, you'd not need to have the boat out in winter as there is still weather worth sailing in

[IslandHopper]

I'm in a 14m berth (actual 12.8m)

Boat is 13.2m + 1.5m overhang (davits/dingy) = 14.7m.

Total overhang = 1.9m.

I am charged for a 14m berth.

[buzzstar]

As I told my kids long ago, and I vaguely remember being told the same: "Nobody promised you fair." [As I am now older, I think there is a political exception to that statement.]

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by sailabroad

We have sailed 1/2 way around the world from Europe and have always been charged for Boat length (a fair system) in marinas: Now we are in New Zealand we are a little surprised to be charged per Berth Length -

As we are just (10 cm) over the average 12m berth our fees have significantly increased.

There's a 'Marina Association' here in New Zealand that provides advice to the marinas how to maximise their profits, rules, standard contracts, which is where this charging model advice has come from, But there does not yet seem to be a New Zealand wide 'Berth-holders association' that could keep the 'Marinas Association' charges, rules in check.

Are there many other countries that charge per Berth Length?

What’s the point of even being a cruiser if you want and expect the entire world to be the same? But worse, many of the statements you make in the post above, and throughout your follow up posts are completely wrong. I can’t but wonder where in NZ you’ve been, certainly not far, nor can you have looked at anything other than bright shiny new floating marinas in the far north.

Nor does the NZ Marina Assn drive the industry at all. We have a Commerce Commission that you or anyone can make a complaint to that will seriously penalise industry for colluding to avoid competition.

There are also many options besides peer based, floating marinas, such as pole moorings, for and aft sunken moorings, fixed (non floating) marinas, and many locations you can get a permit to sink your own mooring. And there are few restrictions on where/length of time for anchoring. One local marina where I live for example has a flat fee of NZ$678 per quarter up to 20mtr LOA.

Originally Posted by sailabroad

There is also no real market forces yet in the NZ marina business to correct the imbalances between the customers and the business, which is what NZ is seeing in the 'Marina Association' charge model, rules, standards etc.

As with many of your other posts the statement is completely wrong

Originally Posted by sailabroad

There was a marina boom in Europe where funds came from the central government in an attempt to kickstart businesses in poorer regions, this seems to be happening in NZ!? lots of new marina projects going on at the moment, and expansions etc..

.
Yet another totally false statement as NZ Government doesn’t invest in or financially support marinas nor has it in several decades (if it ever has). Can you imagine the voter reaction to 'let's build a nice new marina for the wealthy boat owners rather than a new hospital or school'? The only exception to that have been subsidies for the Americas Cup facilities in Auckland.

[Dave22q]

Now that I think on it charging by maximum berth capacity seems to make the most sense. The operator's costs are largely independent of boat size. On the other hand the same is true for most hotels but they generally charge by the number of occupants.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

Now that I think on it charging by maximum berth capacity seems to make the most sense. The operator's costs are largely independent of boat size. On the other hand the same is true for most hotels but they generally charge by the number of occupants.

So, if you had to come into a marina and the only available slip was the T-Berth, rated for 200', would you think it fair that you are charged 6 times what you would normally pay for your 33 footer?