Broker or No Broker

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by smj

One of the benefits of buying from a broker is it isolates you from the buyer, so if your embarrassed about the way your boat shows then selling by owner may not be a good idea.


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Very good point, especially if the buyer seizes on the defects to offer a really low ball price.....A broker buffers the emotion out of the negotiations.

[Zoid]

Great post JusDreaming and timely for me. I will be listing my cruising catamaran soon as well and have been contemplating the broker or no broker question. I think I am going to try and sell by owner first for several weeks to see how it goes. The question I have is without a broker, where can I get any sample contracts I might need? Do sell by owner transactions usually require a 10% deposit pending survey? What is the safest way for both buyer and seller to send/receive funds? Any input would be appreciated.

[JusDreaming]

A friend of mine bought a Island Packet from the owner. He handled the survey and haul-out. Then they just did a bill of sale and transferred federal docs and that was it.

[silversailor]

Originally Posted by JusDreaming

A friend of mine bought a Island Packet from the owner. He handled the survey and haul-out. Then they just did a bill of sale and transferred federal docs and that was it.

While this type of a transaction can occur, it is rare and, more importantly, provides no protection for either party if something goes wrong. What if the haul out damaged the boat? What if buyer walked away and didn't pay for the haul out? The best protection is a well drawn, thoughtful, sales agreement. I have sold 2 sailboats on my own. In both cases the key was the level of maintenance and care that my boat exhibited. Once the Buyer realized that my boat was extraordinarily well maintained, it sold itself. Then, I had in hand a well drafted agreement that favored me, the seller. Similarly, I have purchased several boats without a broker. In those cases I drafted the Purchase Agreement and made sure it favored me, the buyer.

Remember, the objective of the broker's contract is not to protect either the seller or buyer. It's purpose is to protect the broker and to make sure that neither the seller nor the buyer have too many exit points since the broker only gets paid if there is a sale. Just because the brokers agreement is printed (mostly) that doesn't mean that you can't delete, change or add terms, whether you are a seller or buyer. As a seller, before you list a boat with a broker you should read his sales contract first and make sure that your changes will be accepted by the broker. Yes, I know that brokers will argue that they add a great deal to the transaction. But, in today's world where you can reach the entire planet via internet, the amount a broker adds is minimal... unless you are lazy or very rich.

[sailpower]

You apparently aren't familiar with agency law and fiduciary responsibility.

Lot's of honest, reputable, ethical brokers in the world.

Also lots of buyers and sellers willing to do whatever it takes to gain advantage for themselves.

Pot meet kettle.

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[silversailor]

Originally Posted by sailpower

You apparently aren't familiar with agency law and fiduciary responsibility.

Lot's of honest, reputable, ethical brokers in the world.

Also lots of buyers and sellers willing to do whatever it takes to gain advantage for themselves.

Pot meet kettle.

Sent from my VS990 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

It's unfortunate when people use terms that they don't fully understand. I litigated issues of "agency law" and "fiduciary responsibility" for 40 yrs and was continually surprised by the lack of understanding of those terms and, even more, the lack of knowledge as to whom the terms applied. Brokers will tell you that they have a "fiduciary responsibility" to you (they tell this to both buyers and sellers). In fact, BROKERS HAVE NO FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY TO EITHER THE SELLER OR THE BUYER, IN MOST STATES. They may well be "agents" for either the buyer or seller, but that alone doesn't impose a "fiduciary" responsibility on the relationship.

Be cautious about what advice you take... from me as well. Know the person who gives you advice. Otherwise you might end up believing the above quote... which is very simply, dead wrong.

Yes, there are some very ethical brokers (lawyers, accountants, carpenters, etc.) That doesn't change a thing I have said.

[sailpower]

Originally Posted by silversailor

It's unfortunate when people use terms that they don't fully understand. I litigated issues of "agency law" and "fiduciary responsibility" for 40 yrs and was continually surprised by the lack of understanding of those terms and, even more, the lack of knowledge as to whom the terms applied. Brokers will tell you that they have a "fiduciary responsibility" to you (they tell this to both buyers and sellers). In fact, BROKERS HAVE NO FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY TO EITHER THE SELLER OR THE BUYER, IN MOST STATES. They may well be "agents" for either the buyer or seller, but that alone doesn't impose a "fiduciary" responsibility on the relations. KThat doesn't change a thing I have said.

A broker who has a central listing (exclusive right of sale) with a seller doesn't then have a fiduciary resonsibility to that seller? You say you do this for a living?

But, yes, it doesn't change that you said that you draw up contracts favorable to you and, by implication, that is better for people dealing with you than them having a broker.

You also stated that all brokerage contracts are written to only protect the broker.

Did you minor in ad hominums and generalities at law school?

Wait, are you an attorney?

[sailpower]

To the OP, rather than digress, my apologies, give it a shot on your own. Be aware that when all goes well there is nothing to it.

The rest of the time it can be a mine field legally and a waste of your time and perhaps more dealing with the no shows, wannabes, credit criminals, dreamers and scammers.

Try it and see if you like it.

Put a realistic time frame on it then evaluate.

[Hearts Content]

dropping the commission benefits both the buyer and seller. Doing it yourself allows you to use the commission to discount the boat and still come out the same. It speeds the sale at no cost to the seller.

try sailboatlistings. I have found and sold all of my boats here.