Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

[colemj]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

A couple of years ago I had one of their brand name rod holders fall apart dropping a very expensive rod and reel into the bay

And you now have tethers on your rod and reel - right?

Right?

Mark

[sailnow2011]

Make sure the pin is the exact same grade of stainless as the unbonded, unzinced shaft.

[CSY Man]

New pin from another supplier, different shade of gray.

Make sure the pin is the exact same grade of stainless as the unbonded, unzinced shaft

In theory sure. In reality, how do you find out? Call the Duffy factory and ask? The phone clerks have no idea, the tech people may know but too busy to research or answer the phone.
Same with the cotter pin, doubt anybody kin the store knows except the purchasing manager and he is not available.



Installed a shaft zink, hopefully that will do the trick. Should be easy
to see if it is being eaten away in no time.
Thx for the suggestions and advice.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by colemj

And you now have tethers on your rod and reel - right?



Right?



Mark

Yes, I do. Home made ones, but about 6' of line tied to the rings on the reel that you connect the fighting harness to, actually had a big Cuda about 6' break off another poor quality rod holder about this July but the tether saved the tackle, the one that broke that I lost the rod and reel to, didn't even have line in the water, they were attached to my T-top on the old boat and it literally fell apart, reel hit my kid in the head as it fell. I use tethers when fishing, but didn't when they were just in the holders.
Reels are Penn International 30SW no longer manufactured I don't think, I had six, now five. They were actually my Brothers, I got them when he passed.

I bought a good set of Taco holders from Hopcar, I doubt they will break, but I will use the tethers anyway.


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[CSY Man]

I inserted a paper clip in the hollow rusted out cotter pin: This picture shows the paper clip standing up inside the cotter pin.

Also cut a new WM marine pin of the same batch, not hollow inside from the beginning, it came after 4-5 weeks in the water.
Any metallurgist onboard who can explain that.....?

[colemj]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Yes, I do. Home made ones, but about 6' of line tied to the rings on the reel that you connect the fighting harness to, actually had a big Cuda about 6' break off another poor quality rod holder about this July but the tether saved the tackle, the one that broke that I lost the rod and reel to, didn't even have line in the water, they were attached to my T-top on the old boat and it literally fell apart, reel hit my kid in the head as it fell. I use tethers when fishing, but didn't when they were just in the holders.
Reels are Penn International 30SW no longer manufactured I don't think, I had six, now five. They were actually my Brothers, I got them when he passed.

I bought a good set of Taco holders from Hopcar, I doubt they will break, but I will use the tethers anyway.

When we started offshore fishing during passages, a more experienced fisherman saw that we didn't have tethers on our rods and gave me a tongue lashing. I put them on.

We have met many people now with lost gear stories who were not using tethers.

The closest we have come to using the tethers was just recently when I grabbed the rod during a strike and the rod holder broke off its mount and fell into the sea while I was holding the rod.

I'm even a firmer believer in them now!

Mark

[a64pilot]

When the 6 ft Cuda hit, it broke the holder, we were sailing about 6.5 kts and I got to pull the thin line to get the rod back.
I learned a trick that trip, start the engine and put in reverse, add throttle until your almost stopped. Otto will still keep your heading and you can fight the fish without the additional speed. We weren't making good headway on the fish and sailing at 6.5 kts, but by the time we started the engine, he was worn out. Landing a fish in my boat is difficult, was a lot easier when you could open the transom and just drag them in.
I need a good Gaff, are there any that extend, maybe use it as a boat hook too?

Take a look at the Taco holders Hopcar has, Take a lot to break them, I think


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[a64pilot]

Sorry about the thread drift

My theory on the hollow part is maybe it's SS plated? The parent material got eaten up, leaving the plating?

But that is just a guess


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[Paul Elliott]

CSY Man, can you send these photos and info to West Marine headquarters? I have to think they would want to know, especially now that you have some details. The hollowing-out corrosion looks quite "interesting".

[DeepFrz]

I rather think that they were hollow to start with and so just corroded through. Hard to believe that they would corrode out in the middle like that.

[sartorst]

Be sure to write a review on there website to help others out ! recently I purchased a light from a big box store when installing the cheap Chinese junk i knew I would regret not taking it back but installed it anyway a week later the bulbs and lens fell out !!!! When I went to there website many had complained of the same problems Lesson, read the reviews first

[mainesail]

Switch your supplier to Sailing Services in Miami-They are absolutely professional and knowledgeable. I'm a professional rigger and when in my Florida half of the year (Maine the other half) that's who I work with for everything. Absolutely no Chinese crap there. Cheers.

Originally Posted by CSY Man

This pin was installed 4-5 weeks ago on the prop shaft.
Boat in brackish water.
Today I pulled the pin and it crumbled and appeared hollow inside.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

Stray current?

Hmm, never thought of that, but this is an electric boat being charged 12 hrs per day.

The shaft is stainless with no signs of corrosion.
The shaft and therefore the cotter pin is isolated from charger and other electronics with a rubber belt, therefore probably not a faulty grounding.

Stray current would burn a sacrificial zink, but a SS cotter pin?
Would stray current cause the brown rust? Looks like low grade steel instead.
Getting a new pin from a different vendor tomorrow and will keep an eye on.

The scary part is that the West Marine cotter pin is hollow on the inside, I could stick a needle in there. (Hollow after being in the water, probably not before)

it's very interesting. in such a short time exposed to water, even base steel would not deteriorate as you have described. something else is afoot...and i'm not saying that the west marine pin is not poor quality; just that there is another issue involved. i would also think that stray current erosion is a strong suspect. it doesn't have to be from your boat. it could be from a neighboring boat. a lot of people like to blame marina electrical issues for such corrosion but it's not AC current that is responsible. it's DC current that causes the corrosion.

as far as brown rust, stainless is not completely rust proof. it is rust resistant. different grades of stainless have different properties, including different levels of rust resistance. stainless steel can have strong reactions under certain conditions; for instance, it doesn't do well at all when covered so that it can't get air. that's why it's best to not use covered lifelines. stainless steels that have flexibility and malleability qualities that are similar to regular steel, or even carbon steel, tend to have less rust resistance that other types of stainless.

anyhow, i think your situation warrants some serious thought and investigation before conclusions can really be reached.

one last point to ponder

as far as west marine cotter pins being made in China, is anything like that actually made in America anymore?

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by CSY Man

Above picture shows rust on the white nylon washers and rust dripping on the prop guard.
They were clean when pins was installed 5 weeks ago.
The boat has been on the trailer for 1 week, in the water for 4 weeks after I put on a new prop, new washers and a new cotter pin.

Second time this happened: After the first time I went back to West Marine, brought the same corroded pieces and warned them about horrible quality. They did not pay attention, mumbled something about a bad batch, gave me 5 new pins and said "these are good".
Not so, and since they don't care, at least not on the local level, I got no choice but to warn everybody: Do NOT buy safety or rigging stuff at West Marine: They have gone too far getting cheap stuff, most likely in China..

I heard the same "BAD BATCH" when the sewing needles all broke while pushing them with a leather palm. We$t gave me a new pack - same thing.

I shop on line most times & buy needles form Sailrite.

[Lepke]

Stainless 304/316 do not conduct electricity as well as bronze, brass, steel and about 30 times less than copper, 8 times less than zinc. I doubt we're seeing stray voltage or the prop should be pitted.
When commercial fishing, a friend improperly installed an older 12v marine radio on his boat. (+ and - were reversed) The boat had been hauled at about the same time. After relaunching and sitting at the dock for 3 weeks on a charger, the propeller blades were eaten away to the extent the boat wouldn't move. 36" propeller on a monel shaft.