Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-09-2015, 12:48   #31
Registered User
 
colemj's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,110
Images: 12
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
A couple of years ago I had one of their brand name rod holders fall apart dropping a very expensive rod and reel into the bay
And you now have tethers on your rod and reel - right?

Right?

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 13:15   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 425
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Make sure the pin is the exact same grade of stainless as the unbonded, unzinced shaft.
sailnow2011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 15:22   #33
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Boat: Sea Hunt 234 Ultra
Posts: 3,991
Images: 124
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins



New pin from another supplier, different shade of gray.

Quote:
Make sure the pin is the exact same grade of stainless as the unbonded, unzinced shaft
In theory sure. In reality, how do you find out? Call the Duffy factory and ask? The phone clerks have no idea, the tech people may know but too busy to research or answer the phone.
Same with the cotter pin, doubt anybody kin the store knows except the purchasing manager and he is not available.



Installed a shaft zink, hopefully that will do the trick. Should be easy
to see if it is being eaten away in no time.
Thx for the suggestions and advice.
__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 15:40   #34
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,348
Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
And you now have tethers on your rod and reel - right?



Right?



Mark

Yes, I do. Home made ones, but about 6' of line tied to the rings on the reel that you connect the fighting harness to, actually had a big Cuda about 6' break off another poor quality rod holder about this July but the tether saved the tackle, the one that broke that I lost the rod and reel to, didn't even have line in the water, they were attached to my T-top on the old boat and it literally fell apart, reel hit my kid in the head as it fell. I use tethers when fishing, but didn't when they were just in the holders.
Reels are Penn International 30SW no longer manufactured I don't think, I had six, now five. They were actually my Brothers, I got them when he passed.

I bought a good set of Taco holders from Hopcar, I doubt they will break, but I will use the tethers anyway.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 16:17   #35
Now on the Dark Side: Stink Potter.
 
CSY Man's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Boat: Sea Hunt 234 Ultra
Posts: 3,991
Images: 124
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

I inserted a paper clip in the hollow rusted out cotter pin: This picture shows the paper clip standing up inside the cotter pin.

Also cut a new WM marine pin of the same batch, not hollow inside from the beginning, it came after 4-5 weeks in the water.
Any metallurgist onboard who can explain that.....?

__________________
Life is sexually transmitted
CSY Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 17:06   #36
Registered User
 
colemj's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,110
Images: 12
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Yes, I do. Home made ones, but about 6' of line tied to the rings on the reel that you connect the fighting harness to, actually had a big Cuda about 6' break off another poor quality rod holder about this July but the tether saved the tackle, the one that broke that I lost the rod and reel to, didn't even have line in the water, they were attached to my T-top on the old boat and it literally fell apart, reel hit my kid in the head as it fell. I use tethers when fishing, but didn't when they were just in the holders.
Reels are Penn International 30SW no longer manufactured I don't think, I had six, now five. They were actually my Brothers, I got them when he passed.

I bought a good set of Taco holders from Hopcar, I doubt they will break, but I will use the tethers anyway.
When we started offshore fishing during passages, a more experienced fisherman saw that we didn't have tethers on our rods and gave me a tongue lashing. I put them on.

We have met many people now with lost gear stories who were not using tethers.

The closest we have come to using the tethers was just recently when I grabbed the rod during a strike and the rod holder broke off its mount and fell into the sea while I was holding the rod.

I'm even a firmer believer in them now!

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 17:28   #37
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,348
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

When the 6 ft Cuda hit, it broke the holder, we were sailing about 6.5 kts and I got to pull the thin line to get the rod back.
I learned a trick that trip, start the engine and put in reverse, add throttle until your almost stopped. Otto will still keep your heading and you can fight the fish without the additional speed. We weren't making good headway on the fish and sailing at 6.5 kts, but by the time we started the engine, he was worn out. Landing a fish in my boat is difficult, was a lot easier when you could open the transom and just drag them in.
I need a good Gaff, are there any that extend, maybe use it as a boat hook too?

Take a look at the Taco holders Hopcar has, Take a lot to break them, I think


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 17:31   #38
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,348
Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Sorry about the thread drift

My theory on the hollow part is maybe it's SS plated? The parent material got eaten up, leaving the plating?

But that is just a guess


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 18:08   #39
Moderator Emeritus
 
Paul Elliott's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,663
Images: 4
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

CSY Man, can you send these photos and info to West Marine headquarters? I have to think they would want to know, especially now that you have some details. The hollowing-out corrosion looks quite "interesting".
__________________
Paul Elliott, S/V VALIS - Pacific Seacraft 44 #16 - Friday Harbor, WA
www.sailvalis.com
Paul Elliott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 18:29   #40
Registered User
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 8,462
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

I rather think that they were hollow to start with and so just corroded through. Hard to believe that they would corrode out in the middle like that.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 18:50   #41
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 467
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Be sure to write a review on there website to help others out ! recently I purchased a light from a big box store when installing the cheap Chinese junk i knew I would regret not taking it back but installed it anyway a week later the bulbs and lens fell out !!!! When I went to there website many had complained of the same problems Lesson, read the reviews first
sartorst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 19:31   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Most of my life has been in coastal Maine, recently relocated to Tampa Bay area
Boat: Cy Hamlin/Joel White wood Yawl, 1968, 32', "Dulcibella"
Posts: 37
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Switch your supplier to Sailing Services in Miami-They are absolutely professional and knowledgeable. I'm a professional rigger and when in my Florida half of the year (Maine the other half) that's who I work with for everything. Absolutely no Chinese crap there. Cheers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
This pin was installed 4-5 weeks ago on the prop shaft.
Boat in brackish water.
Today I pulled the pin and it crumbled and appeared hollow inside.

mainesail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 20:00   #43
Registered User
 
first wind's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chesapeake bay area
Boat: 1971 cal 27
Posts: 427
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
Stray current?

Hmm, never thought of that, but this is an electric boat being charged 12 hrs per day.

The shaft is stainless with no signs of corrosion.
The shaft and therefore the cotter pin is isolated from charger and other electronics with a rubber belt, therefore probably not a faulty grounding.

Stray current would burn a sacrificial zink, but a SS cotter pin?
Would stray current cause the brown rust? Looks like low grade steel instead.
Getting a new pin from a different vendor tomorrow and will keep an eye on.

The scary part is that the West Marine cotter pin is hollow on the inside, I could stick a needle in there. (Hollow after being in the water, probably not before)


it's very interesting. in such a short time exposed to water, even base steel would not deteriorate as you have described. something else is afoot...and i'm not saying that the west marine pin is not poor quality; just that there is another issue involved. i would also think that stray current erosion is a strong suspect. it doesn't have to be from your boat. it could be from a neighboring boat. a lot of people like to blame marina electrical issues for such corrosion but it's not AC current that is responsible. it's DC current that causes the corrosion.

as far as brown rust, stainless is not completely rust proof. it is rust resistant. different grades of stainless have different properties, including different levels of rust resistance. stainless steel can have strong reactions under certain conditions; for instance, it doesn't do well at all when covered so that it can't get air. that's why it's best to not use covered lifelines. stainless steels that have flexibility and malleability qualities that are similar to regular steel, or even carbon steel, tend to have less rust resistance that other types of stainless.

anyhow, i think your situation warrants some serious thought and investigation before conclusions can really be reached.

one last point to ponder

as far as west marine cotter pins being made in China, is anything like that actually made in America anymore?
first wind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 20:06   #44
Registered User
 
Nicholson58's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 6,635
Images: 84
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
Above picture shows rust on the white nylon washers and rust dripping on the prop guard.
They were clean when pins was installed 5 weeks ago.
The boat has been on the trailer for 1 week, in the water for 4 weeks after I put on a new prop, new washers and a new cotter pin.

Second time this happened: After the first time I went back to West Marine, brought the same corroded pieces and warned them about horrible quality. They did not pay attention, mumbled something about a bad batch, gave me 5 new pins and said "these are good".
Not so, and since they don't care, at least not on the local level, I got no choice but to warn everybody: Do NOT buy safety or rigging stuff at West Marine: They have gone too far getting cheap stuff, most likely in China..
I heard the same "BAD BATCH" when the sewing needles all broke while pushing them with a leather palm. We$t gave me a new pack - same thing.

I shop on line most times & buy needles form Sailrite.
Nicholson58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-09-2015, 20:51   #45
Registered User

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 3,623
Re: Warning, West Marine Dangerous Cotter Pins

Stainless 304/316 do not conduct electricity as well as bronze, brass, steel and about 30 times less than copper, 8 times less than zinc. I doubt we're seeing stray voltage or the prop should be pitted.
When commercial fishing, a friend improperly installed an older 12v marine radio on his boat. (+ and - were reversed) The boat had been hauled at about the same time. After relaunching and sitting at the dock for 3 weeks on a charger, the propeller blades were eaten away to the extent the boat wouldn't move. 36" propeller on a monel shaft.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
danger, marine

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Marina Ixtapa dangerous swell warning. Muckle Flugga Marinas 1 06-08-2015 08:28
Why Cotter Pins david7 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 54 19-08-2013 06:23
Cotter pins of Martec Prop flopresti Monohull Sailboats 1 13-04-2013 10:29
cotter pins or rings??? fla.sailor Construction, Maintenance & Refit 63 15-12-2008 09:31

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.