Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

[MamaKube]

Although not the primary topic here, I would also like to give a shout out to using a double tether. With the typical unwanted but at times necessary task of going forward in rough seas or at night plus a large center cockpit and stern area, my husband and I purchased a double tether to move around and always stay connected to the boat from the time we get to the top of the companion way.
This conversation definitely caused me to rethink the jack lines too.

[medevicerep]

In Finland, the fishermen never learn how to swim. When asked why, they said swimming only prolongs the agony.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Pete7

How do crew go from the cockpit forward past a sprayhood whilst remaining clipped on?

This is an issue I'm working on for my boat. Jackline will be centerline, tethers with double attachment points, use the long one only when needed to double clip when moving attachment points.

But how to get out of the cockpit and forward around the dodger. So far the best idea I have requires a hard point by the companionway and another at the side of the cockpit which will require at least three clips to reach the jackline.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Dockhead

read this from Yachting Monthly - why the crash stop doesn't work

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/yacht...82333975041831


Might have some answers to you questions

Thanks for this - Phil cleared that up for me a few pages back. I can stop my boat better than those YM guys, but not if I'm running with the boom preventered out.

That article hammers home how important it is to familiarize yourself with how your boat handles when trying to stop her on different points of sail.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Pete.. this is something I never understand about people.. going forward on the windward side..
Did all those old black and white movies with James Cagney desperately clawing to high ground as bullets thudded into him create the myth/belief that the high ground is safer.. and if he'd got there he'd have lived..
Personally the only time I walk the windward side is in good conditions.. when it starts to turn bad I walk the leeward side.. the hull and coachroof breaks seas into spray.. green water will not take my legs from under me.
I'm leaning inboard with a hand holding the rail on the roof at waist height.. the advantages of the extra balance and safety seem so obvious to me that I find it hard to understand the logic that leads you to a place where one's balance point has one leaning over the scuppers or further.. and handholds are at knee level minimising ability to plant feet firmly and just shuffle your way forward..
But each to their own.

My thoughts exactly. I have always walked on the lee side - seems totally natural to me. More connected to the boat with more stuff in the right place to hang onto.

[hamburking]

I believe you cannot imagine what it is like out there, when the wind and waves are up.

I recall not wanting to drink any water, because the effort and risk of taking a pee later was just not worth it.

Making a cup of coffee sometimes is just not possible.

Sometimes, it takes all your strength just to stay in your bunk.

Kudos to those brave and tireless crew who worked as hard and as quickly as possible trying to save their shipmate.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

My thoughts exactly. I have always walked on the lee side - seems totally natural to me. More connected to the boat with more stuff in the right place to hang onto.

My policy has always been that in rough conditions, no one leaves the cockpit.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I know this answer is kinda out of order, and I’m assuming that you haven’t placed me on your ignore list yet, but the answer to your question lies in post #20 and #24. Please watch the videos and comment. We use these drysuits along with harnesses, tethers, inflating lifejackets, a sugar scoop stern and personal epirb devices. What more can be done?

I think a buoyant drysuit is a great idea. On my shopping list; thanks.
However, trying to recover a MOB from the stern in a seaway, much less rough weather, would be tantamount to murder -- certain death. If that's your main plan for recovering a MOB, you need to do some more studying.

And the main question anyway is -- how do you keep from drowning the guy as he's dragged along by his tether? This has been a very informative discussion, and it seems to me that if you're on a point of sail which doesn't allow for a sudden stop, there isn't actually any answer to it. And many sailors die like this -- very common end to MOB situations in rough weather. Maybe being tethered from behind would help. Maybe someone could invent some kind of breathing apparatus. But fundamentally it seems to me that we just have to somehow stay on the boat. That's Plan A, of course, for all of us, but it looks more and more to me like there are many situations where it's Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, and Plan Z.

[terrysandling]

I am in agreement with dock head. Just having compleated the Atlantic as skipper on chantana an oyster 56 no one is allowed on deck at night regardless if anyone goes on deck it’s me the engine is put on for safety and control heave to is a very safe way of stabiliseing the vessel my experience many years ago in hurricane marie taught me more than I have time to explain happy new year to all and safe sailing

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hamburking

My policy has always been that in rough conditions, no one leaves the cockpit.

Sometimes you have no choice. Those Clipper Race boats have hank-on headsails, which I think is a bad idea for sailing in the Southern Ocean.

But yes -- no non-essential trips out of the cockpit, for sure, is a good policy for rough weather.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by ferrailleur

maybe a stupid question?


Could have a quick winching of the victim out of the water saved his life?
No time to stop or turn the boat. Time saved with just fasting a knot between tether and a line and quick winching of that line to get the crewman out of the water along the freeboard.... Your thoughts.

Sounds like that's what the crew were doing, lanyard snapped before they got a halyard attached to his harness. No details of timescale - could have been seconds or many minutes for all we know.

[TrentePieds]

Boatie makes an essential point in #10. How often do you see a yacht fitted with gear specific to the purpose of getting a MOB back aboard? Or even with gear that can be quickly applied to that task even though mainly in other employment?

Wimpy Sunday sailor though I am, and operating only in the Salish Sea as I do, I am nevertheless acutely aware of the want of such gear, for here, even in balmy August weather, a person's life expectancy in the water in the middle of the straits is said to be about forty minutes! I can believe it. I've taken a dunking :-).

Stopping people going OB is one kinda problem that certainly needs to be addressed effectively. And in isolation from ANOTHER, discrete problem, viz how do you get a MOB up and over the rail? I know for damnsure that I could NOT get My Beloved back into TP, if she went, unless I had gear to help me. And she, most decidedly, could not get ME back aboard!

There is yet a third problem that also requires a solution developed in isolation from the former two: How do you bring the boat alongside the victim? Again, Boatie - I think it was - made the point that when you are running before, the technique required is quite different from the one to use when you're hard on the wind. It takes longer and it involves dangers that are less acute in the latter case.

In a rather pedestrian toy boat such as TP, there are really only two sets of gear that I can conceive of as being both effective and easily handled by a moderately competent sailor: 1) A main on track and slides so it can come off the mast in seconds and be thrown overboard to receive the victim into the bunt of it. Cranking on the halyard will parbuckle the victim and get him out of the water. Do it with care and he'll pop right over the lifelines. 2) Have a running topping lift, and not one of those deplorable standing jobs, let alone the pathetic clip-onto-the-backstay jobs you often see. With a running topping lift, the boom becomes a cargo boom and the victim can, if conscious, tie onto a pennant from the end of the boom. Crank away and up he comes.

I rather prefer solution #1, because even if the victim is unconscious or dead, a boathook or two will get him into the bunt of the sail. Perhaps not easily, but it will. Unconscous/dead men don't tie knots. So for #2) to get a victim in that state back up would mean going in yourself to do the job of tying. Not sound seamanship!

As Boatie hinted,you don't expect boat factories to think of, let alone provide, such intellectually advanced gear. But I don't think it's beyond the ability of us boat owners to fit such gear.

TP

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by terrysandling

I am in agreement with dock head. Just having compleated the Atlantic as skipper on chantana an oyster 56 no one is allowed on deck at night regardless if anyone goes on deck it’s me the engine is put on for safety and control heave to is a very safe way of stabiliseing the vessel my experience many years ago in hurricane marie taught me more than I have time to explain happy new year to all and safe sailing

Indeed -- note that heaving-to works to miraculously stabilize the boat even in horrendous conditions, even in a sea state so bad that you couldn't sail in any direction but downwind. Definitely the safest way to do work on the foredeck in bad conditions.

Note however that all bets are off if the seas are breaking. I guess you just don't go out there in such conditions. But what if there is something you absolutely have to do?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think a buoyant drysuit is a great idea. On my shopping list; thanks.
However, trying to recover a MOB from the stern in a seaway, much less rough weather, would be tantamount to murder -- certain death. If that's your main plan for recovering a MOB, you need to do some more studying.

And the main question anyway is -- how do you keep from drowning the guy as he's dragged along by his tether? This has been a very informative discussion, and it seems to me that if you're on a point of sail which doesn't allow for a sudden stop, there isn't actually any answer to it. And many sailors die like this -- very common end to MOB situations in rough weather. Maybe being tethered from behind would help. Maybe someone could invent some kind of breathing apparatus. But fundamentally it seems to me that we just have to somehow stay on the boat. That's Plan A, of course, for all of us, but it looks more and more to me like there are many situations where it's Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, and Plan Z.

DH,

Been there... no murder took place.

Neither the dog nor the knucklehead was “murdered” or died a “certain death” during the singlehanded rescue performed on our Hunter 450 seven years ago using the Lifesling and the technique recommended by Lifesling (which is illustrated on the outside of the protective case). Now we practice several times each season using a rescue life ring as the victim and without the engine... just to keep in practice.

You and others should do the same, both to see just how simple it is to perform and then to keep up your skills.

To answer your question in the above post: Cut him loose in his drysuit and recover using the Lifesling technique like we use on our boat.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Boatie makes an essential point in #10. How often do you see a yacht fitted with gear specific to the purpose of getting a MOB back aboard? Or even with gear that can be quickly applied to that task even though mainly in other employment?

Wimpy Sunday sailor though I am, and operating only in the Salish Sea as I do, I am nevertheless acutely aware of the want of such gear, for here, even in balmy August weather, a person's life expectancy in the water in the middle of the straits is said to be about forty minutes! I can believe it. I've taken a dunking :-).

Stopping people going OB is one kinda problem that certainly needs to be addressed effectively. And in isolation from ANOTHER, discrete problem, viz how do you get a MOB up and over the rail? I know for damnsure that I could NOT get My Beloved back into TP, if she went, unless I had gear to help me. And she, most decidedly, could not get ME back aboard!

There is yet a third problem that also requires a solution developed in isolation from the former two: How do you bring the boat alongside the victim? Again, Boatie - I think it was - made the point that when you are running before, the technique required is quite different from the one to use when you're hard on the wind. It takes longer and it involves dangers that are less acute in the latter case.

In a rather pedestrian toy boat such as TP, there are really only two sets of gear that I can conceive of as being both effective and easily handled by a moderately competent sailor: 1) A main on track and slides so it can come off the mast in seconds and be thrown overboard to receive the victim into the bunt of it. Cranking on the halyard will parbuckle the victim and get him out of the water. Do it with care and he'll pop right over the lifelines. 2) Have a running topping lift, and not one of those deplorable standing jobs, let alone the pathetic clip-onto-the-backstay jobs you often see. With a running topping lift, the boom becomes a cargo boom and the victim can, if conscious, tie onto a pennant from the end of the boom. Crank away and up he comes.

I rather prefer solution #1, because even if the victim is unconscious or dead, a boathook or two will get him into the bunt of the sail. Perhaps not easily, but it will. Unconscous/dead men don't tie knots. So for #2) to get a victim in that state back up would mean going in yourself to do the job of tying. Not sound seamanship!

As Boatie hinted,you don't expect boat factories to think of, let alone provide, such intellectually advanced gear. But I don't think it's beyond the ability of us boat owners to fit such gear.

TP

The age old question, a little outside the scope of the main topic, since this is not a problem if the guy has drowned anyway in the mean time.

We do, actually, have gear designated for this purpose -- triple purchase block and tackle always ready in the cockpit table well deployed from the end of the preventered-out boom. The victim has to be conscious enough to clip the lower block to his harness for this to work. It helps that we use the exact same gear and technique to haul up the outboard from the dinghy, so the gear is regularly used and we stay in practice. Other boats simply use a halyard for this purpose (including the Clipper boat in the article). Probably also ok, and faster, but there is a risk of bashing the victim to death on the topsides as he comes up.

If the victim isn't conscious then the plan is to deploy one of the life rafts, for someone to get into it, and roll him on board, then clip and haul. That plan is a bit of a fantasy, probably, since it can only work with at least three people on board (I'm frequently two or one), and if the victim is unconscious in the cold water I sail in, he's probably a goner anyway. But you have to have something . ..