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Old 30-12-2011, 22:02   #31
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

I have never been seasick so I can't fully understand how bad it is, but I have seen the debilitating effects on strong competent people on board.
I have a mate who I like to sail with. He would start to feel sick as soon the boat left the Marina.

I decided I could fix this!

The first day of "the cure". Back the boat out of the pen and sit in the fairway. "Do you feel sick now?" No. Return boat to pen and secure all lines.
The second day of "the cure". Back boat out of pen and sit at the entrance to the Marina for half an hour. "Do you feel sick now?" No. Return boat to pen and secure all lines.
Third day of "the cure" Back the boat out of pen sit out in the river for an hour or so. "Do you feel sick now?". No. Return boat to pen and secure all lines.
Third. fourth, and fifth day saw us out in the bay and finally out in the ocean for a sail to a nearby port in perfect weather.
I was smugly congratulating myself on curing my mates malady when he calmly leant over the side and made his contribution to the fishes.
Within half an hour he was a semi comatose pile of groans on the cockpit deck.

Shows what I know!

Regards.
Shiner
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Old 30-12-2011, 22:06   #32
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

Good discussion and well asked.
My one caution to the OP, is not to promise or depend on harbor hopping as a remedy, since that can really compromise your sailing schedule if weather is fickle where a night passage would make all the difference.


I am convinced there is a psychosomatic element to motion sickness after years at sea in the charter/adventure business, observing guests/crew taping the same transoderm patch to their ear for weeks and swearing by it…. (when they removed it….. they got sick)


It is an inner-ear issue where the mind tells you one thing (standing still) but your built in sensors are recording movement. This conflict causes stress


One trick I developed in helping professional crew with chronic motion sickness was to teach them to “dance” to the ship movement.
Play music and dance whenever you felt queasy and the brain relaxes its warning signals.


On Ocean crossings our new stewardesses and cooks would be up on the top deck doing the mal de mer waltz .
Seemed to work for quite a few to help them get acclimatized.
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Old 30-12-2011, 22:19   #33
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post

One trick I developed in helping professional crew with chronic motion sickness was to teach them to “dance” to the ship movement.
Play music and dance whenever you felt queasy and the brain relaxes its warning signals.


On Ocean crossings our new stewardesses and cooks would be up on the top deck doing the mal de mer waltz .
Seemed to work for quite a few to help them get acclimatized.

Could be well worth a try-seriously. What music ???
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Old 30-12-2011, 23:14   #34
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

Different people respond differently to the conditions, but in San Francisco it's quite common for guests / crew to feel fine inside the bay, even with some vigorous waves and boat motion. Then as soon as we cross under the Golden Gate Bridge and get into the gentle long-period Pacific swells, half the crew turns green and starts feeding the fish.

I theorize that this is due in part to the loss of external visual references that you get when at sea. Inshore there is the shore, trees, buildings, etc, that help your eyes and inner ears maintain synchronization. There also seems to be something about the "slow, greasy" swells that triggers the seasickness.

Staying topside is best, or going below, lying down and closing your eyes. Worst is trying to read or use the navigation gear down below. Cooking in the galley is also pretty tough. For the first few days I try to have simple pre-made meals available. It might help me that I *like* candied ginger, soda crackers, and Gatorade!
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Old 31-12-2011, 13:02   #35
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

There is certainly a psychological part in seasickness. Being "in charge" helps: I observed that I have never been seasick on my own boat (yet). I have been seasick only once when I was the skipper. By contrast, I am not invulnerable when I crew. Boredom and fear also play a part. For these reasons, helming is a good antidote.

On the physical side, cold, hunger and dehydration increase the risk, as well as acidic food and beverages. For example, it is best to avoid tomatoes, orange juice and coffee. By contrast, bananas are as good to eat as to throw up.

When somebody is really sick, I recommend him/her to sit lengthwise in the cockpit. I observed that this improved my condition in difficult times. Only after a few moments is it possible to convince the person to go down and lay on a berth, well mainained by a lee cloth.

Alain
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Old 31-12-2011, 13:35   #36
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
I could always escape sea sickness by sleeping however rather difficult if you are the skipper.
You have to sleep sometime. No use in being in charge of the show if you're exhausted and making sloppy decisions. The USCG mandates any trip longer than 12 hours has two captains onboard just for that reason. One sleeps while the other is on watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferShane View Post
Unfortunately there is the other side of the coin that when some people succumb to seasickness and lay down they can have troubles getting back up again? Sometimes it is better to encourage them to keep active up in the fresh air and look at the horizon etc?
I haven't seen what you're talking about directly but I'm sure there's a lot I haven't seen. For me if I lay down and close my eyes I feel better pretty quickly, and a night sleeping in a bumpy ocean has me fairly immune to motion sickness after that.
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Old 31-12-2011, 14:02   #37
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

Anything Better than Stugeron for Seasickness?
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Old 31-12-2011, 15:21   #38
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

I, too, am prone to sea sickness if I've been in a marina or calm anchorage for more than a few days. I can even become sea sick if I'm on a long passage that has an extended calm period and then develops more motion. I have found several things that help me:

  1. No alcoholic beverages 24 hours before departure (we don't drink anything alcoholic once we're underway on anything more than an overnighter).
  2. Build up your electrolytes over several days prior to leaving. I've found that the Emergen-C brand is very good for doing this.
  3. I swear by Stugeron, especially if taken well before casting off - at least one hour but preferably earlier.
  4. If already at sea and an onset of nausea occurs, stay in the cockpit, avoid using binoculars. keep warm, eat a little something bland like saltine crackers, watch the horizon, take the helm, sip a non-caffeinated soft drink and keep a small barf bucket handy so you don't actually have to hang over the life lines if you do have to puke.
  5. I highly recommend Phenergan suppositories or Zofran if nausea gets really bad as it can put the boat in a short-handed condition in possibly dangerous situations. Zofran recently went generic and can be purchased as Ondansetron. It no longer costs US$30 per tablet. You let it dissolve under your tongue. Phenergan suppositories are more of a pain in the ass to take.
  6. Of course, the fool-proof cure for sea sickness is to lie down on flat, dry ground.
Fair winds and calm seas.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:07   #39
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

good summary nh. Although I find some people enjoy suppositories, I also find them to be err... troublesome.
The reason lying down works is because of decreased intraabdominal pressure. Either lie down or stand up. They both work. Sometimes I lie down in the cockpit, but sitting and holding your stomach just makes it worse.
I barf over the pushpit, but I am tied in. For some reason seeing the water flow by me is comforting. Probably just a mind thing. I will try the bag next time with my passengers- I get uptight when I see them run to the railing.
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Old 01-01-2012, 14:15   #40
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

The generally accepted theory is that seasickness is caused by a discordance in the sense of equilibrium. The inputs are the inner ear, the peripheral vision and the proprioceptor nerves in the feet and buttocks. To remove the discordance, close the eyes and lie down on your side, to avoid rolling with the boat.

The theory is that motion sickness is a result of Mankind evolution. On land, equilibrium troubles are often caused by food poisoning. Then, the body protects itself by throwing up.

Alain
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Old 01-01-2012, 20:58   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydra
The generally accepted theory is that seasickness is caused by a discordance in the sense of equilibrium. The inputs are the inner ear, the peripheral vision and the proprioceptor nerves in the feet and buttocks. To remove the discordance, close the eyes and lie down on your side, to avoid rolling with the boat.

The theory is that motion sickness is a result of Mankind evolution. On land, equilibrium troubles are often caused by food poisoning. Then, the body protects itself by throwing up.

Alain
I've read about this too. Your body feels motion that it doesn't understand the reason for- since you are looking at the motionless horizon. Someone I read about would sit on the boat while at dock & watched the waves move (letting the body connect the motion with the wave motion). This let the body know that the motion feeling wasn't from poison or illness. She didn't get sick once the boat started sailing Don't know if this works for others but this person swore by it.
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Old 02-01-2012, 20:22   #42
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

I did a google search for Sturgeon and found this written by a medical doctor:

April 2006
A LACK OF CRITICISM FOR THE BRAND NAME DRUG

I am writing in response to your comment about using StugeronT for
seasickness - and your annoyance that the Federal Drug Administration
doesn't approve it for sale in the United States.

I talked about medical preparations for cruising at the 2006
Zihuatanejo SailFest, and used that opportunity to review medications
for seasickness - including StugeronT, which is a brand name for
cinnarizine. Even though many people have found that cinnarizine is
effective in preventing seasickness without noticeable side-effects,
it is not a good drug. Cinnarizine is a 'sloppy' drug that interacts
with at least three different receptors in the brain and the rest of
the body, histamine and acetylcholine receptors like most drugs for
seasickness, along with dopamine receptors. In addition, it is a
calcium channel blocker. Incidentally, almost all adverse effects of
cinnarizine are found by looking for information under the generic
name. There is very little literature criticizing the brand name drug.

Low-dose cinnarizine, 25 mg, is sold in many countries as StugeronT
(among more than 40 brands) for vertigo and motion sickness.
Cinnarizine is banned - even in low doses - by airline pilots in the
United States because it impairs judgement. Higher dose cinnarizine,
75 mg, is sold as Stugeron ForteT in countries where it is available,
and is used to relax arteries due to its calcium channel blocking
effects. High doses have also been reported to unmask Parkinson's
disease, or make Parkinson's disease worse due to blocking dopamine
receptors. Drugs that have such different uses with such small
differences in dose are just not good drugs - even if they are
effective in some instances.

In these many regards, cinnarizine is similar to other medications
taken for nausea and seasickness - including PhenerganT and
CompazineT, which are available in the U.S. and have similar physical
and psychological side effects. In fact, all of the drugs for
seasickness - including original DramamineT, meclizine (non-drowsy
DramamineT), and Transderm-scopT - have many significant side-effects
and need to be used with caution, especially if someone is operating
complex and expensive equipment in situations where good judgment and
clear thinking are critical.

Cinnarizine is commonly sold in other countries as 25 mg tablets, but
it is usually effective at lower doses. Cinnarizine is not safe for
pregnant women, or children younger than five. People who have taken
cinnarizine, and who have found it to work without side-effects,
should take the lowest effective dose. But they should consult their
physician, especially if they have Parkinson's disease, take
medications for depression, or have heart disease. Higher dose 75 mg
tablets of cinnarizine, such as Stugeron ForteT, are aimed at a
different problem than seasickness.

Don't hold your breath waiting for the FDA to approve it for sale in
the United States.

Roy Verdery, M.D.
Jellybean, Pearson 36
Northern California / Santiago Bay, Mexico
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Old 02-01-2012, 21:22   #43
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

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.......is a 'sloppy' drug that interacts
with at least three different receptors in the brain and the rest of
the body, ....
Very interesting article about drug use for motion sickness and confirms my own policy of dealing with individuals who depend on it.


I SIMPLY DON’T WANT THEM ONBOARD !


This might seem harsh, but if I have a choice, I leave them on the beach and cruise with people who have developed a natural affinity to the sea
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Old 02-01-2012, 21:56   #44
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I am going to adopt that policy!

Pelagic, I'll leave it to you to tell my wife, a severe motion sickness sufferer, of our boats new policy!

Call me when you arrive at the hospital, I'll send flowers

This is not good news, but I am glad for the info.

sturgeon is the only medication that has any substantive effect for the admiral so we will take a look at dosages...
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Old 02-01-2012, 23:23   #45
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Re: Monitoring sea sickness

I was on a cruise ship recently and my wife got sick. They gave us some ripper meds that worked a treat. Meclizine. I was also unwell, but moreso in the head, a dizzy feeling versus an upset stomach and it solved that no problems.

Just this week I spent 3 days in a row banging around in a small boat. Was a little battered and unwell, ended up with a bad headache and some diziness with vomiting. Took all sorts of things, panadol, maxolon and something else but didn't help. Took my last Meclizine and I was feeling much better. I was in the car at the time almost at the point of vomiting and nearly chucked when I swallowed the pill. 20 mins later I was all good.

Keeping the temp down is also important so Paracetamol is important or Ibuprofen, plus much of it is nerves prior, so even a light Valium can help a lot.
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