Merged Thread: New Zealand Yacht with One Deceased and Another Missing

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Reed, you might just want to do a quick bit of research about the guy that you are slanging... before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself.

Oh... you are too busy to do so? Just a hint, then: retired master mariner, with many years of high latitude cruising in his yacht.

Jim

Really, Wow am impressed to no end. So much experience, so little learned.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Really, Wow am impressed to no end. So much experience, so little learned.

This insult coming from somebody with such a fine grasp of sail boat dynamics as to post completely wrong infomation such as this.

Originally Posted by reed1v

Farther aft you rake, the less weather helm. Rake it enough and it will have lee helm(not good).

It's amazing how someone like Reed1v who boasts of so much experience can have learned so little from it!

[stevensuf]

One article said the boom hit him, another said they were taking on water near the end and had steering problems.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

This insult coming from somebody with such a fine grasp of sail boat dynamics as to post completely wrong infomation such as this.



It's amazing how someone like Reed1v who boasts of so much experience can have learned so little from it!

Tis tis, so you disagree that rigging failure had anything to do with the fatal accidents? So then what do you think the cause was? And more importantly for this board, what do we learn from it?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Tis tis, so you disagree that rigging failure had anything to do with the fatal accidents? So then what do you think the cause was? And more importantly for this board, what do we learn from it?

I think what we are learning is that we are talking a lot while we have very little information about the accident.

However, to me this is nothing new. Put it on human nature and roll on.

b.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Rather odd that such a boat would have problems. 150 km/hr winds not really excessive. If the picture is of the current sea state, certainly not like North Sea conditions. Evidently rigging broke, setting off a chain reaction; so perhaps not so much bad conditions but bad rigging?

Seriously. What a stupid comment. It's not the wind that is damaging, it is what that wind does to the sea state.

Where you there? I suspect not.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Guess you never sailed in a hurricane before. 90-100 mph winds are strong but a well founded boat should have no problems dealing with it. In those winds you either hove to; or ride with a storm sail. Of course some folks, like Turner, just keep sailing with deep reefs.

Interestingly as the wind rises up to the 140+ mph range, the seas actually flatten out. Most folks at that point just drop all sails, batten down, and let the boat assume its natural stance. Of course a full keeled boat will handle this way better than fin keeled or centerboard boats.

Most folks? Who? And then a the dumb comment about keel type.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Interestingly as the wind rises up to the 140+ mph range, the seas actually flatten out.

Just as a side note .... This comment is false.

In the past it was difficult to get decent wave height measurements in such conditions, but we now can and the follow quote deputies the general learning:

"The implication is waves generated by hurricanes are much larger than previously suspected. Waves in excess of 90 feet aren't rogue but are fairly common during stronger hurricanes,"

"The tallest measured wave was 91 feet (28 meters). The researchers believe they likely missed even larger waves because their sensors shut down before the most powerful region of the storm passed over them.

"If we had been fortunate enough to sample the waves when peak winds were overhead, we'd expect to have seen waves in excess of 130 feet [40 meters] from crest to trough," team member William Teague said.

At its peak intensity, the hurricane was a Category Five storm—the most powerful—with sustained winds of 161 miles an hour.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

Just as a side note .... This comment is false.

In the past it was difficult to get decent wave height measurements in such conditions, but we now can and the follow quote deputies the general learning:

"The implication is waves generated by hurricanes are much larger than previously suspected. Waves in excess of 90 feet aren't rogue but are fairly common during stronger hurricanes,"

"The tallest measured wave was 91 feet (28 meters). The researchers believe they likely missed even larger waves because their sensors shut down before the most powerful region of the storm passed over them.

"If we had been fortunate enough to sample the waves when peak winds were overhead, we'd expect to have seen waves in excess of 130 feet [40 meters] from crest to trough," team member William Teague said.

At its peak intensity, the hurricane was a Category Five storm—the most powerful—with sustained winds of 161 miles an hour.

Is this a forum about tankers or about small yachts? Massive hurricanes do raise sea states and do create elevated sea levels; but unless you are sailing a tanker, you probably would not notice. We have seen tankers labor mightly in 130 mph winds while we were bobbing around like a duck. Huge, massive waves but with enormous periods. While tankers can get suspended between two or three of those monsters, a small plastic container(read sailboat) will simply rise and fall with the monsters.

About the only real danger is from the tops breaking off and cascading down the face, but extreme winds convert most of the tops to spindrift. But what do we know? Obviously 70+ years of sea experience does not count for much with some of you folks.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Is this a forum about tankers or about small yachts?

I just noted that the comment you made was factually false. It is false whether we are talking about tankers or small yachts.

About the only real danger is from the tops breaking off and cascading down the face, but extreme winds convert most of the tops to spindrift.

The first part of this comment is mostly true is common storm conditions, but is factually false in extreme hurricane conditions, where the wind force itself can cause knockdown's and significant damage. And in such conditions 'most' of the breaking wave is NOT turned into spindrift - most (the majority) of the breaking wave is still solid water even if there is also a lot of spindrift

.......

[reed1v]

Hum, one person says its not the wind, its the seas; another says its not the seas, its the wind. Ok, guess you both have been in more hurricanes at sea than us; so we must defer to your superior experience. Our humble experiences in three oceans: Indian, South Pacific, and North Atlantic were strangely different than yours.
High winds, massive seas and you are relatively protected except when you crest a sea. Never saw part of a wave flying through the air. That is a good one.
You can however drown from the spindrift, its thick and leaves little room for air to breath. FYI, at least for our tub of a boat, letting it assume its natural position worked, so did lying ahull with just a bit of tri sail, and so did going downhill with bare poles.

[TurninTurtle]

I've seen a few boats "play submarine" as waves broke over them... The forces involved can be immense and in extreme cases could crush the hull like an empty soda can... then it doesn't come back up.

Lose steering at the wrong time and you are in deep $4!*.
I don't care who you are or what your vessel is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vK074Ymlqw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6AfSckWSZA

I've also been on an aircraft carrier (93,000 tons) when it was hit by a wave big enough to break over the flight deck and cover half the "island." Felt like we were in a car hitting a brick wall.

Underestimating the power of the sea is asking to be at the bottom.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by TurninTurtle

I've seen a few boats "play submarine" as waves broke over them... The forces involved can be immense and in extreme cases could crush the hull like an empty soda can... then it doesn't come back up.

Lose steering at the wrong time and you are in deep $4!*.
I don't care who you are or what your vessel is...

I've also been on an aircraft carrier (93,000 tons) when it was hit by a wave big enough to break over the flight deck and cover half the "island." Felt like we were in a car hitting a brick wall.

Underestimating the power of the sea is asking to be at the bottom.

Yes, happened on the Ranger when a sea broke clean across the forward deck. Lost two planes in that one. But naval ships act like breakwaters, not like a floating duck. Dont get too carried away with the photoshopped youtube stuff. The spectacular stuff usually occurs when there is either a strong counter current to the storm surge or the ocean bottom suddenly rises up. We were more afraid of holes opening up in the sea. Notorious ones occur off the west coast of southern Africa. Then even ducks can get swallowed up.

[El Pinguino]

It actually happens offshore from Port Shepstone/Port St Johns in Natal.. out near the 100 fathom line where the Aghulas runs strongest. I would call that the east coast.

Bin there..hit that one... bent the boat. Takes the form of a missing sea so you get an extra deep trough. Buried the front half back as far as the pumproom
Strange to relate those conditions probably wouldn't bother a well found yacht.. well no more than it would be getting bothered anyway.

[Paul L]

Local news reports a tug enroute to the Platino to recover the body onboard. Recent position here