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Old 22-01-2014, 20:42   #1
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Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

Working on the deck, under shrink wrap without enough ventilation. Ugh. Why does anyone use Polyester Resin? It smells so bad and is so toxic. West System may cost more but it is almost twice as tough, easier to work with, is way more versatile, has a longer shelf life, and and doesn't knock you on your ass when you smell it.

I have dermatitis around where my respirator touches my face, have a slight wheeze and am seeing stars here and there. Gross. I need to stop compulsively working on my boat.
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Old 22-01-2014, 20:54   #2
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

know the feeling. last spring i used a 7" power sander to take off twenty years of hard bottom paint. the yard made me drop blue tarps all around (can't blame them) so i was working 'inside'. even with a full respirator and tyvek suit i swear i was inhaling copper dust. took over a week, working just a few hours a day, but i think i took a few years off my life.

i wanted to hire someone to do it but nobody wants to do it anymore. now i know why. nowadays they 'peel' the hull or sandblast it. not too crazy about either but next time....
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Old 22-01-2014, 21:44   #3
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

Quote:
Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
Ugh. Why does anyone use Polyester Resin?
Maybe this is why: From the interlux web site on applying primer to epoxy: "Allow three to five days for clear epoxies to cure fully."




Wish I had read that before using West System as a barrier coat.
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know the feeling. last spring i used a 7" power sander to take off twenty years of hard bottom paint. the yard made me drop blue tarps all around (can't blame them) so i was working 'inside'. even with a full respirator and tyvek suit i swear i was inhaling copper dust. took over a week, working just a few hours a day, but i think i took a few years off my life.

i wanted to hire someone to do it but nobody wants to do it anymore. now i know why. nowadays they 'peel' the hull or sandblast it. not too crazy about either but next time....
Wow that sounds unbelievably miserable. I've had to heat gun off old paint from a wooden boat bottom. That is a sucky ass job. I've also had to grease an entire boatyard's worth of jack stands with used motor oil it was my first day working at my family's boatyard. DO you think they were trying to send me a message? No one on here better accuse me of having a silver spoon. I work for my misery!
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Old 22-01-2014, 22:09   #4
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

The styrene in poly resin may smell bad, but it is not as bad for you as the amines in epoxy.


http://www.styrene.org/news/pdfs/02-...date_study.pdf


Trends in worker exposure to styrene in the European GRP industry - Reinforced Plastics


Study concludes styrene exposure not carcinogenic - News - Plastics News



Respiratory effects of occupatio... [Arch Environ Health. 1976 Sep-Oct] - PubMed - NCBI




Health Effects from Overexposure to Epoxy




Health Problems of Epoxy Resins and Amine-curing Agents



http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/hesi...ents/epoxy.pdf



Can you tell I've been an OSHA Safety Officer at some large production facilities?
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Old 22-01-2014, 22:14   #5
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

I feel like we've had this conversation before Minaret? Haha. Regardless, Amines do not smell as bad and don't make me feel nauseous. They also aren't flammable. I will wear a respirator either way.
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Old 22-01-2014, 22:17   #6
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

Out of curiosity, what sort of respirator and cartridges were you using? A little red eye from a heavy fume scenario is normal, but I can't smell any fumes at all when wearing a respirator, and I have a full beard. Do you positive pressure test? Hood test? Old cartridges? Bad flapper valve? I live in respirators full time, and do OSHA approved hood testing all the time. You should not be experiencing that level of discomfort with basic safety gear. Do you have a latex allergy? Do latex gloves irritate your skin? Have you tried a more high end silicone respirator? Less likely to experience skin problems with one. Just trying to help out...
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Old 22-01-2014, 22:20   #7
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

Thinking ahead to the future, I wonder if it might be a good idea to cover a bottom with an adhesive sheet, something like Venture Shield, & then bottom paint over that. The next time that you had to strip the bottom, it would be an easy job. I'm not sure that it would hold up on a fast motor boat, but on a sail boat, I would expect good results.
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Old 22-01-2014, 22:23   #8
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

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I feel like we've had this conversation before Minaret? Haha. Regardless, Amines do not smell as bad and don't make me feel nauseous. They also aren't flammable. I will wear a respirator either way.



That's why they are dangerous. I can't tell you how many people I've met who are convinced that epoxy is safe to work with because it doesn't smell bad. As a result, they don't wear proper safety gear. I've seen a lot of sensitization, skin and respiratory. Good thing you are on top of that.
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Old 22-01-2014, 22:27   #9
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

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Out of curiosity, what sort of respirator and cartridges were you using? A little red eye from a heavy fume scenario is normal, but I can't smell any fumes at all when wearing a respirator, and I have a full beard. Do you positive pressure test? Hood test? Old cartridges? Bad flapper valve? I live in respirators full time, and do OSHA approved hood testing all the time. You should not be experiencing that level of discomfort with basic safety gear. Do you have a latex allergy? Do latex gloves irritate your skin? Have you tried a more high end silicone respirator? Less likely to experience skin problems with one. Just trying to help out...
I have a 3M respirator with regular cartridges. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know more than that. I don't even know what a positive pressure or hood test is? I too have a full beard. I may have initially exaggerating my conditions a bit for the sake of an interesting thread but suffice to say, it was a miserable, smelly day, my skin is irritated, and I feel like doody.
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Old 22-01-2014, 22:46   #10
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

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I have a 3M respirator with regular cartridges. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know more than that. I don't even know what a positive pressure or hood test is? I too have a full beard. I may have initially exaggerating my conditions a bit for the sake of an interesting thread but suffice to say, it was a miserable, smelly day, my skin is irritated, and I feel like doody.


I believe that last. A hood test takes equipment, it's how OSHA tests workers for compliance. Basically they put a big hood over your head that seals around your shoulders and spray really nasty bitter tasting stuff in there. If you can taste it, you fail. It is basically impossible to pass a proper hood test with a full beard.


A positive pressure test, on the other hand, is part of proper donning procedure. Every time you don your mask, be it fullface or half mask, you should do this. You just put your hand over the exhalation valve and blow until your mask is inflated (positive pressure). Your mask should be able to maintain positive pressure on its own with no help from you for at least ten seconds. If it doesn't, you have a poor seal or a bad flapper. Negative pressure test is better, but you have to remove the cartridges for that. Positive test should be a habit. Remember that flapper valves can't seat properly in a dirty mask, wash daily. Valves are only good for so long too, the center hole gets elongated and oversized and they lose their consistency. I replace flappers every other time I replace cartridges, they cost pennies. Know your mask. You might consider an upgrade to Acid Gas cartridges (the yellow ones) for working in small areas with little or no ventilation. And for bearded folk like us, there is always the sure method for a good seal in extreme conditions. Slather a handful of Vaseline in your beard. It's nasty, but it works really well. Take it from a guy who used to do stuff like rubbing butter on his face when running a chopper gun or painting in an enclosed space with no fullface...
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Old 22-01-2014, 22:59   #11
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

Thanks for the info!
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Old 22-01-2014, 23:06   #12
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

Always happy to help disseminate safety info! Cancer sukks...
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Old 22-01-2014, 23:43   #13
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

Harking back to the days when I worked routinely with radioactive materials, half-mask respirators are NEVER approved for use in life threatening atmospheres. The very minimum is a full face respirator with the appropriate cartridges. And at our lab (Lawrence Livermore Nat'l Lab), no facial hair was allowed for folks who worked in hazardous environments. Caused some angst, but an inviolable rule. Vaseline does improve things with beards, but is not reliable enough for serious hazards.

The OP mentioned using "regular" cartridges. This smacks of a particulate filter when he should have been using an organic vapour filter. If so, no wonder it seemed ineffectual!

The wonderful shipwright who built our strip planked boat was youngish and hence invulnerable to that sort of thing. As a result he became so sensitized to epoxies that he can no longer work using serious quantities of such chemicals. Had to build his last yacht with foam and vinylester rather than timber and epoxy... a medium that he hates! A big price to pay for not heeding the warnings (which he was aware of).

So listen up when Minaret (who does this stuff daily) lays down the law!

Cheers,

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Old 23-01-2014, 00:43   #14
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

Organic cartridges go bad just sitting out and then don't do anything. 3M always has info about storing, replacing etc.
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Old 23-01-2014, 04:10   #15
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Re: Gave Myself Drain Bamage Today

I often work with paints and chemicals I don't trust (currently I am restoring an old classic mini), so a few years ago I bought a basic face mask with air feed, and then bought a CPAP machine to feed it a positive air pressure.

I would not recommend this for any sort of seriously nasty stuff, like 2 pak paint, but for stuff where they prescribe "good ventilation" it works very well.

The air compressor for the face mask was quoted at something like AU$1K, but I bought the CPAP machine as a discontinued model from a friend who sells them for a living for just a few $.

Dad recently borrowed the rig when he had to grind out some fibreglass from his old galley and said it was the first time he was able to do such a job while being completely relaxed about his health.

I'm not neurotic about this stuff, but just the ability to relax while working with mildly suspect compounds makes for a better job. OK, you look a little bit like one of those guys from the E.T. movie, but it is so much less stressful. And at the end of the day, you toss off the disposable coveralls, have a quick shower, and you feel human again.

Matt..

P.S. For those that don't know, CPAP machines are devices used by people with sleep apnoea or even mild snoring. There are many manufacturers out there, and they are constantly improving the technology, so people often upgrade them for the latest features. From a strict hygiene perspective their basic function keeps them very clean but if I were buying a used unit I guess I would give it a jolly good clean first.

P.P.S. I have a full beard, so I need the sort of full head cover which uses positive air pressure to keep out the nasties. So does dad, which was why he borrowed mine.
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