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Old 15-07-2012, 15:23   #256
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

All right, lets just get this settled once and for all. All the paper charters over here! Grab some torches and we can get these %$##$% chart plotters while there is still just a few of them!
How someone wants to navigate in their own boat is up to them. As long as they don't run into me.
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Old 15-07-2012, 15:26   #257
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Just do the lightning dance on their decks.....
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Old 15-07-2012, 15:29   #258
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
How someone wants to navigate in their own boat is up to them. As long as they don't run into me.
Can we pull up beside you and ask for directions
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Old 15-07-2012, 15:51   #259
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Every time I power up my gps and radar there is some warning that says something like "dont rely on this product for navigation".

I'm a big fan of paper charts. When I learned how to sail back in the 70's with my dad, he never used anything but paper charts.
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Old 15-07-2012, 16:03   #260
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

And there are fun things to practise like navigating with your watch and the sun (or even without the watch, once you get good at estimating time), or having a sketch map given to you with time limit and destination, or putting a groundsheet over your head and practise traveling only on a bearing and DR (probably not useful on a boat deck). Gadgets don't make a navigator. How did the cartographers get along?
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Old 15-07-2012, 16:19   #261
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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I'm a big fan of paper charts. When I learned how to sail back in the 70's with my dad, he never used anything but paper charts.
Not surprising really.
The GPS system was not available until 20 years later. The first chartplotters took a few years longer.
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Old 15-07-2012, 16:21   #262
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[QUOTE=I'm a big fan of paper charts. When I learned how to sail back in the 70's with my dad, he never used anything but paper charts.[/QUOTE]

With all do respect, there wasn't anything else available back then. Even with loran you still needed paper to plot position.
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Old 15-07-2012, 17:19   #263
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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It is hard to come to conclusions about lightning from a small number of cases. A severe strike will blow a hole in the boat split the mast, vaporise the thru hulls or chain plates. When it's bad it can in a small number of cases be very bad, even in a grounded boat you are probably going to need the liferaft.
Most strikes are milder. We got hit a few years ago (I have had my turn, now it's yours )
All the electronic equipment that was outside or had components outside like the VHF was damaged, but nothing inside. including a laptop that was playing the movie Titanic at the time.
This is in an aluminium boat.

OF COURSE.

Any lightning strikes that would take out both my chart plotter and my hanheld would have to zap over 20' of the boat. Odds are it would have taken me out too, and certainly be sinking the boat.

BUT WHY THIS PERSON KEEPS INSISTING THAT ANY OF US WOULD FALL APART WITHOUT OUR ELECTRONICS -- except for the first poster -- IS BEYOND ME. He/she is simply believing whatever he wants to believe, and I can't fix that.
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Old 15-07-2012, 17:43   #264
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
Not surprising really.
The GPS system was not available until 20 years later. The first chartplotters took a few years longer.
I was using a Sat Nav unit in 84 or 85, made by Texas Instruments if i remember correctly......i remember the price tag though....$4900.00!

A single fix every six hours, and you had to set your alarm clock to make sure you where there to get it, miss it and it was another six hours before the satellite passed again....

Average accuracy of about 2 miles, sometimes better sometimes a lot worse. Purely for open ocean use only, once in sight of land you turned it off......scary stuff!
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Old 15-07-2012, 17:56   #265
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

Last time I did any "blue water" sailing, the alternator was fried so we had no power the whole way...I was the only one that wasn't retired USN. Sextant and dead reckoning the whole way (3 position fixes with passing freighters proved to be spot on ).
I just knocked my laptop off the bunk, I landed wrong...no electonic charts until I replace it wit somehine less fragile. I am looking at a mini (4"x4.5"x1.05") computer that runs on 12v mounts below decks and communicates to cockpit via Bluetooth and WiFi.
This was a bit of a wake up call as to delicacy of electronics intended for a terrestrial world...anyone who suggests "Why don't you just buy a proper chart plotter system" they cost close to my annual income (then I would still have to get back-up paper charts).
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Old 15-07-2012, 18:11   #266
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

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Originally Posted by Maineripple View Post
Every time I power up my gps and radar there is some warning that says something like "dont rely on this product for navigation".

I'm a big fan of paper charts. When I learned how to sail back in the 70's with my dad, he never used anything but paper charts.

So what?

I am so tired of people saying that. Well, guess what. At the turn of the 20th century, my greatgrandparents didn't have a car. When my colleague's twin sister died of diphtheria, they didn't have diphtheria vaccine yet. When Little House on the Prairie was the common lifestyle, electricity for households hadn't yet been developed.

We get it. We all get it. The world has not always had chart plotters.

If you -- or anyone else -- doesn't want a chart plotter -- don't buy one.

But if you then assume that you are smarter than anyone else because of it, you're an arrogant ass.

Boy that felt good.
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Old 15-07-2012, 18:34   #267
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Re: Paper charts now unnessary

When I get two conflictng opinons bout somthing on my boat stop an think "What would happen if they were wrong?"
"You need paper charts" if wrong they take up extra space, but are still pleasant to look at.
"You don't need paper charts" if wrong I am sailing blind (this would probably happen in the worst f circumstances).

Also in the event of theft...electronics are much more likely to be stolen than charts.
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Old 15-07-2012, 19:09   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micah719
And there are fun things to practise like navigating with your watch and the sun (or even without the watch, once you get good at estimating time), or having a sketch map given to you with time limit and destination, or putting a groundsheet over your head and practise traveling only on a bearing and DR (probably not useful on a boat deck). Gadgets don't make a navigator. How did the cartographers get along?
Well there goes my gadget Sextant. My gadget pelorus , my gadget Marine chronometer, my gadget barometer , my gadget etc etc. gadgets have been part of navigation since Henry was a lad.

Dave
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Old 15-07-2012, 19:16   #269
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The truth of the matter is in my experience most sailors carry SOME charts but in fact sail by plotter and gps. I always try and have backup paper chart and I like if possible to keep a running plotted fix.

bUT often it's impossible to find or very very expensive to carry detailed paper charts of a long route. Hence I may have overlay small scale planning charts , but I don't have detailed coastal approach charts. Here I rely on my plotter as it DOES have all of these.

Like all things on a boat, it's a trade off, a compromise, nothing's perfect.

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Old 15-07-2012, 19:19   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

OF COURSE.

Any lightning strikes that would take out both my chart plotter and my hanheld would have to zap over 20' of the boat. Odds are it would have taken me out too, and certainly be sinking the boat.

BUT WHY THIS PERSON KEEPS INSISTING THAT ANY OF US WOULD FALL APART WITHOUT OUR ELECTRONICS -- except for the first poster -- IS BEYOND ME. He/she is simply believing whatever he wants to believe, and I can't fix that.
You have no idea what you are talking about. It's improbable but happens that boats are hit. Some have been hit twice. Electronics can fail and I have met people that have had all everything wiped out due to a near strike. That's why they are on the hard getting everything replaced. Where you come up with this stuff I have no clue.
You'll fall apart when you have no clue where you are fogged in out side of Ambrose channel. Then you get to decide your compass is good and your chart has a good position. After that it's diligence and trust in your skill. Not clear what you are trying to advocate.
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