Need help from USN Small Boat Vet

[Snore]

I started this thread with hopes it would not evolve into a cluster of what branch of service is the best and political fecal matter. Okay that didn't happen.

Like all countries we have spies (gasp). We have aircraft dedicated to snooping and when they are caught, crash or shot down, we do what anyone would do--- we deny it.

Anyone who thinks we are the only ones spying should report to slip 712 for a drug test.

Anyone who thinks we should not spy even if others do spy please report slip 700 and board S/V Rainbows and Unicorns.

Anyone who feels that Congress and the POTUS with input from SCOTUS should all discuss all spying --- please report to the rear court yard campfire for 5 verses of Coombia.

The issue is that if this was a spy mission how did they get caught by a flats boat? If this was not a spy mission how do 2 state of the art vessels navigate close enough to an enemy island to see the beach?

Like everyone else I will need to wait until the truth, or at least a reasonable spin thereof, comes out.

Snore out




Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.

[barboak]

Originally Posted by Going Walkabout

Is that the same Kerry who gave aid and comfort to the enemy when he returned home to the USA? Is it the same Kerry that disrespected the Armed Services by throwing his medals away? Is it the same Kerry that gave false reports while under oath to the US Congress?

Walkabout are you American and are you a military veteran to earn the right to criticize those that serve(d)? As a Vietnam vet I think that war sucked and a generation was affected whether they served or not! What gives you the right (besides commenting way too often on every subject under the sun) to criticize a well honored Navy veteran like John Kerry? The swift boat types are a bunch of Neanderthals with no honor is that who you quote? You should buy a boat and go cruising!
Sorry for the rant, don't comment much as almost everything on CF ends up political by usually the same folks! And I think the navy boats knew exactly where they were when captured!


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[hellosailor]

"are you a military veteran to earn the right to criticize those that serve(d)?"
You don't have to be a vet to have the right to criticize those who served. That right is assured by our First Amendment. When I see an entire military establishment throwing out the texts on modern warfare ("Modern" going back to the Romans) in favor of following political orders that serve only to slaughter the grunts for no purpose--I'll criticize them roundly, because "doing my duty" and "following orders" stopped being a defense at Nuremberg.
I'd suggest the entire US officer corps was guilty of treason for following the inane orders to slaughter their own troops without a formal declaration of war, and the FULL commitment that brings, during Vietnam. Not to mention certain more recent situations.
No insult meant to the many fine servicemen/women that I have known, who felt their job was only to SERVE without question, and with admirable bravery when they did. You say "Sir, No Sir" and one can argue just as well that spending ten years in Leavenworth doesn't help much either, unless you can get the entire corps to go along with you. We certainly didn't need a coup d'état either.


But back to the comments about GPSes...most GPS users are unaware that the DoD asked Garmin to include an undocumented feature, when GPS was first being used in the first Gulf War. There's normally a secret 3-button press that you can make during power-up on a Garmin, and if you make it, all memory is wiped from the unit. Three-button, so it can't happen by accident. Semi-secret, undocumented, because law enforcement would prefer consumers and thieves don't know it.
But it is also SOP that US troops wipe their GPSes in certain circumstances, i.e. if capture is immanent. So whether instruments were seized or not--there's still no reason to expect they could have proved anything, for or against.
(And yes, they get wiped beyond recovery, or so they said.)

[barboak]

My bad about having to be a veteran to criticize other vets, not really what I wanted to say, just kinda po'd! Kind of sensitive about the swift boat thing against Kerry and even Trump's bs about POWs. makes me think about ALL those republicans at the debate out toughing each other with war talk about carpet bombing etc, not one tough guy on the stage ever enlisted when he had a chance! I know whose kids will do the fighting for them, just like Nam.
And here I am getting political, sorry about that!


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[The Garbone]

Let us not forget GPS can be jammed as the Norks did a few years back.

I believe the boats were in international waters and Iran was flexing.

Neville Chamberlain was a peacemaker just like Mr Kerry. That worked out just chipper in the end.


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[Simonsays]

Originally Posted by Snore

I started this thread with hopes it would not evolve into a cluster of what branch of service is the best and political fecal matter. Okay that didn't happen.

Like all countries we have spies (gasp). We have aircraft dedicated to snooping and when they are caught, crash or shot down, we do what anyone would do--- we deny it.

Anyone who thinks we are the only ones spying should report to slip 712 for a drug test.

Anyone who thinks we should not spy even if others do spy please report slip 700 and board S/V Rainbows and Unicorns.

Anyone who feels that Congress and the POTUS with input from SCOTUS should all discuss all spying --- please report to the rear court yard campfire for 5 verses of Coombia.

The issue is that if this was a spy mission how did they get caught by a flats boat? If this was not a spy mission how do 2 state of the art vessels navigate close enough to an enemy island to see the beach?

Like everyone else I will need to wait until the truth, or at least a reasonable spin thereof, comes out.

Snore out

Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.

1.) i was not there.
2.) the vessels used have a history of malfunction in this area of operation.
they are high perfomance boats build by the Swedish for moderate climate, not for the gulf region.
3.) the vessels used were on a 280 nm track. they have fuel reserves for 240 nm in their default spec. rumor has it, a refuel rendevous was missed due to mechanical issues.
4.) both vessels were reportedly on a transfer to Bahrain. they were picked up by the Iranians in a location that is not on that transfer route.
5.) the event was used by all three sides for their political agenda: Iran, US Gov. and Republican hardliners.

the result is a mess of lies.

[hellosailor]

Snore-
While you're waiting for the truth to come out...remember, we're still waiting for the truth to come out on Pearl Harbor. Or, on the Lusitania. Matter of fact, I'd have thought that after 50 years, someone would have leaked about the JFK assassination, but maybe they're staying quiet because there's too much money to be made selling books on conspiracies.


Yes, sure, the US military has been kind enough to invent situations like "goat****" and "*****" and share those wonderful terms with the rest of us. But they have also done some things like allow the capture of equipment and information, in order to plant disinformation with an enemy. The same way that still-unconfirmed persons dropped USB sticks near the Pentagon, hoping some of them would get plugged into computers inside military firewalls. And that "no one's that stupid" exercise, years later, is STILL infecting military networks. Or so the DoD still says.


Is everything a conspiracy? No. I hope. Did the release of what, $1.8 billion dollars in Iranian seized funds have anything to do with this? Perhaps not. But the guys on the boats pretty much made it back all safe and sound, and as far as I care, whoever was up to whatever, that's the most important part. (Well, unless you saw the original "Manchurian Candidate" and one of them runs for office in ten more years.(G)

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Snore-
While you're waiting for the truth to come out...remember, we're still waiting for the truth to come out on Pearl Harbor. Or, on the Lusitania. Matter of fact, I'd have thought that after 50 years, someone would have leaked about the JFK assassination, but maybe they're staying quiet because there's too much money to be made selling books on conspiracies.


Yes, sure, the US military has been kind enough to invent situations like "goat****" and "*****" and share those wonderful terms with the rest of us. But they have also done some things like allow the capture of equipment and information, in order to plant disinformation with an enemy. The same way that still-unconfirmed persons dropped USB sticks near the Pentagon, hoping some of them would get plugged into computers inside military firewalls. And that "no one's that stupid" exercise, years later, is STILL infecting military networks. Or so the DoD still says.


Is everything a conspiracy? No. I hope. Did the release of what, $1.8 billion dollars in Iranian seized funds have anything to do with this? Perhaps not. But the guys on the boats pretty much made it back all safe and sound, and as far as I care, whoever was up to whatever, that's the most important part. (Well, unless you saw the original "Manchurian Candidate" and one of them runs for office in ten more years.(G)

Well said. But I would like to pose a question. What if the Manchurian Candidate is already in office and it's not as an agent for China but for Iran? Just hypothetically of course.

[hellosailor]

Nah. Anyone familiar with long-term US politics (and if you haven't read the late Daniel Moynihan's book "Speaker of the House" it was excellently written and reads very quickly) knows that our current president was a product of the Chicago Democratic Machine, which forged intimate ties with the Chicago Mob, which is how bootlegger Joe Kennedy made his money and bought his son the presidency in 1960.
And the Chicago mob vets their candidates very well, they wouldn't allow an Iranian president.
As to who ordered a key load of voting machines to be driven into the Chicago River, and never logged as missing, resulting in JFK winning Chicago and thus all of Illinois' electoral cotes back in 1960 when Richard Nixon (!) actually would have won the Presidency....hey, who needs "Man-ranian" candidates to get better than that?


Funny how a new X-Files miniseries is finally on the air, isn't it?

[Strait Shooter]

WOW......just WOW!

Who the hell left the crazy gate open?
And would you please close the damn thing?

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by John_Trusty

Oh listen to the sabers being rattled, "If I was in charge, I'd bomb the whole lot of them. Talking is just appeasement." It's easy to be tough, if you are too old and don't have kids that will get shot up. Yes, governments lie to save face - so what. I would rather have a few half-truths than get in a shooting war, and I suspect that cooler heads in Tehran and Washington think the same. By the way, before any of you start questioning how honorable and brave John Kerry is, have the courtesy to read his silver and bronze star commendations. It may have been a foolish war, but at the boat commander's level, it was dangerous.

Thats right...

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Then you should know it's SOP for an army guy to insult the navy.

You getting low T these days?

What about those sailors that offer up "Marine Napkins" ?? I dont think Marines get upset about that though..ha ha huh?

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

A quick perusal of terrorism thiller author Matt Braken's facebook page reveals him to be a racist consipracy theorist. Ex-service personnel have political views like the rest of us, and like the rest of us, some of them are going to be wack jobs. Unfortunately, those with military experience will sometimes use it (even if that experience was 30 years ago, as in Braken's case) to make their readers believe that their wacked-out theories carry weight. And the more noise they make, the more books they sell.

Thats right..

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

(And yes, they get wiped beyond recovery, or so they said.)

Beyond recovery may be from the unit's side. But each ping on each unit is registered on the satellite side and thus is traceable. Now, would the folks at the NSA ever want to share these with anyone - that's another question.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Nah. Anyone familiar with long-term US politics (and if you haven't read the late Daniel Moynihan's book "Speaker of the House" it was excellently written and reads very quickly) knows that our current president was a product of the Chicago Democratic Machine, which forged intimate ties with the Chicago Mob, which is how bootlegger Joe Kennedy made his money and bought his son the presidency in 1960.
And the Chicago mob vets their candidates very well, they wouldn't allow an Iranian president.
As to who ordered a key load of voting machines to be driven into the Chicago River, and never logged as missing, resulting in JFK winning Chicago and thus all of Illinois' electoral cotes back in 1960 when Richard Nixon (!) actually would have won the Presidency....hey, who needs "Man-ranian" candidates to get better than that?


Funny how a new X-Files miniseries is finally on the air, isn't it?

Well that's more information I didn't know. The Kenedy grandfather bootlegging yes but the other stuff I had no idea. By the way I'm not saying that the POTUS is Iranian. The Manchurian Candidate wasn't Chinese.

You need to check signet between Valerie Jarrett and Iran. And I'm not just talking about phone calls with her cousins. And you need to ask why the special place of privilege she holds in the White House. Mind you these questions are now academic since the damage has been done.