Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

View Poll Results: Direct 3 strand nylon line to chain or to shakel/with themble
Direct nylon line to chain braided in serveral links of chain 10 20.41%
Direct nylon line to chain braided in one link of chain 16 32.65%
3 strand nylon to themble/eye and to shakle 26 53.06%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-05-2006, 06:03   #1
Ram
Registered User
 
Ram's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cruising Greece
Boat: Cat in the med & Trawler in Florida
Posts: 2,298
Images: 27
how do you set up your anchor rode?

I have 3/4- (two seprate rodes) and 5/8s- 3 strand nylon going to 5/16 chains , im wondering the best way to mate the two together,(line to chain) ive seen both ways done.
Ive always done the brade to the themble and then a shakle to the chain.
im not concerned about it not going through the winlass, because I can lift it up over when needed.
On the other hand if its really stronger to go direct to chain I would give it a try, how do you do yours?
__________________

__________________
Ram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2006, 08:37   #2
Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,453
The reason I don't use the thimble method is because it won't fit through the deck pipe to stow the chain and line in the forepeak.

Added: I use 3/4" rode ... with thimble it is too bulky to fit through ... with smaller line, you might get it to work.
__________________

__________________
S/V Elusive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2006, 09:52   #3
Registered User
 
CaptainK's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA
Posts: 2,386
Images: 7
I picked choice number #3.

It seem the most logical choice for a strong rope connection to the chain/thimble?
__________________
CaptainK
BMYC

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
CaptainK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2006, 10:37   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: presently gallivanting back across the Pacific... Pago Pago at the moment
Boat: Hylas 49 - GALLIVANTER
Posts: 201
Rope to Chain Splice

Aye splice three strand nylon directly to the last link of the chain with a "Shackle Splice" (aka "Crown Splice") for the same reasons mentioned above. Takes five min. and has worked well in all situations. Far superior to using a thimble & shackle.
Kirk
__________________
Gallivanters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2006, 11:29   #5
Registered User
 
CaptainK's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA
Posts: 2,386
Images: 7


That goes to show ya how much I know about splicing a 3 stranded line to anchor's??
__________________
CaptainK
BMYC

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
CaptainK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2006, 22:34   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
No you are on the right page K. Splicing to the chain is so you can keep the termination as small as possible to allow use around capstans. But it alos has the disadvantage of getting the greatest wear and taking the load on a much smaller cross section of the rope. There are two ways of splicing to chain, one being slightly better than the other. One way is to split the rope to each seperate strand and weave through some chain links and back to the rope to splice. This is good for reducing movement between the rope/chain contact and thus minimising chaff. It's disadvantage is, each of the three strands now take a slightly different load and if the splice has been done poorly, it can place a great load on one strand alloing faster wear and even breakage.
The other methos is to place the complete rope throught the chain link and make the splice. I think this is the worst connection that can be down. It has little advantage and has lots of disadvantage, mainly in chaff and little contact area.
But the best way of attaching as far as the rope connection is concerned, is via a thimble. The shackle doesn't have to be used. It can be left out and the thimble placed in the chain link and the splice made around the thimble. It is the use of a thimble that makes many nervouse about using the thimble/shackle method. The result is, the load on the rope is taken over a greater surface area, it has no direct contact to the chain that can cause chaff and the three strands remain tightly wound giving the greatest strength. If the thinble isn't too big, it can even pull over most fairleads and taken around most capstans with care.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2006, 22:53   #7
Registered User
 
CaptainK's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA
Posts: 2,386
Images: 7
Well.

Looks like my logic paid off here after all!!

Thanks Alan for that great insight!!
__________________
CaptainK
BMYC

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
CaptainK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2006, 07:17   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Currently based near Jacksonville FL; WHOOSH's homeport is St. Pete, FL USA
Boat: WHOOSH, Pearson 424 Ketch
Posts: 591
Alan, have you actually noted excessive wear in the nylon line spliced around a single (last) length of the chain after opening up the splice? I ask because I used to think as you do until Evans Starzinger (with Beth Leonard, on HAWK) told me he changed the splice out each year while they were doing a Circle on their Shannon. He never found wear there and and they relied on their splice (limited length of chain) a lot. So I started doing the last-link splice and in 3 openings/inspection/replacements, I found no wear either.

This is one of these intuitively "true" beliefs that in reality probably depends not only on how the splice is done (and then served) but also how often the splice is put to work in the water and the typical weather (and therefore anchoring conditions) the boat sees. For boats that carry mostly chain and have a rope end piece for the really deep water, IMO the single link splice is a non-issue if done properly. For boats that use less chain and are always dipping the splice into the water because of the depths you anchor in, checking the splice at least annually is probably a good idea...at least until you can determine what your own experience is, for your type of line, quality of splice, amount of use of the rode et al.

IME we are too quick to condemn this practice without much first-hand justification.

Jack
__________________
WHOOSH, Pearson 424 Ketch
http://www.svsarah.com/Whoosh/WhooshSection.htm
Euro Cruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2006, 08:20   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Octoplait is far superior to 3 strand nylon as the anchor rope. It is so much easier to stow, kinder to the hands, and much less likely to kink (hence seriusly weaken) or even get tangled.

I use a proper rope to chain splice through several links in the chain. This is much easier to do with octoplait, than 3 strand, creates a neater splice, and will go through the hawse pipe better.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2006, 09:17   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Possibly counterintuitive

Like Euro Criuser it took a lot of convincing for me to be converted to the "last link" group. Brion Toss (http://www.briontoss.com/) has convincing arguments regarding the strength of the crown knot on the last link over that of separating the strands and distributing them over several links.

The crown knot is essentially TWO cross-sections of the rode pulling on the chain and allows for the best distribution of load as compared to the several link method. Now here is where the comparison to a thimble gets more counterintuitive. Because the crown knot is symmetrical the stretch over that one link is very small compared to the length of the nylon which stretches over several inches of thimble to chafe.

Now I have had to replace the splices on thimbles before due to anchoring in very heavy swells and having the nylon "melt" into the inside surface of the thimble thereby weakening the whole configuration. Outside one could not tell by inspection that anything was wrong. Brion Toss claims that a thimble will crush under load or have the nylon stretch over the sides if not on a direct pull causing failure before a crown knot will fail in the last link.

Taking this one step further I use a 5/8" double braid polyester (Dacron) pendant with an eye splice in the last link of 3/8" chain (5/8 line is the largest that I could get in the 3/8 chain). An eye splice in the other end of the pendant mates with an eye splice of the nylon forming a connection greater in strength than the weakest line. I carefully dress the galvanizing of the last link and line it with sailtape before adding the non-stretch double-braid polyester. This seems to be bullet-proof.
__________________
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2006, 09:28   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Eyesplice-to-eyesplice

BTW: When I describe and eyesplice-to-eyesplice connection I do not mean that they are connected together like links of a chain. They are connected together so that they look like a square knot forming symmetrical load distribution to both lines having double the load carrying capability of the weakest line minus a small degradation factor related to a non-infinite radius of turn in the line. Make sense?
__________________
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2006, 09:42   #12
Ram
Registered User
 
Ram's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cruising Greece
Boat: Cat in the med & Trawler in Florida
Posts: 2,298
Images: 27
Rick,
Is it possable to post a few pictures, I think that might help some?
__________________
Ram is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2006, 12:58   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Seattle area (Bremerton)
Boat: C&C Landfall 39 center cockpit "Anahita"
Posts: 1,076
Images: 6
Anchor/rode connection photo

Please view attachment.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	anchorrode 009a.jpg
Views:	1488
Size:	30.5 KB
ID:	111  
__________________
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2006, 13:47   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
Jack, your second statement is spot on. It all depends on how it's down and how it's used.
I don't think any one splice is dangerousely worse than another. And I think it depends on so many factors, just as there are so many good anchors, yet different factors make one better in one location that another.
Personaly, if you can get the line around a thimble, metal to metal contact has simply got to be better in the long run, than a rope to metal contact. But that is not saying that the connection is far supperior. It depends on so many other factors, including ease of use determined by you anchor winch and fairlead type.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-05-2006, 14:30   #15
Registered User
 
CaptainK's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Phoenix, Arizona... USA
Posts: 2,386
Images: 7
I agree with what alot of you had just mentioned above. I believe as long as you have a really good splice to either the chain or thimble. You should have a good way of anchoring in safety.

Different methods. Different ways of doing things. Different strokes for different folks!!

It also depends on what you're going to anchor in. That I believe that the differances on how you splice your line to the anchor, depends on how it should perform in that anchorage?

I believe that's how it works out?
__________________

__________________
CaptainK
BMYC

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin
CaptainK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, rode

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spade Anchor Unsafe - Remedy ? GordMay Health, Safety & Related Gear 37 04-04-2009 01:19
Set Adrift Stede The Sailor's Confessional 8 29-11-2007 14:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.