How big is too big?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

With too big an anchor you will struggle to properly set the thing. This will likely leave part of the fluke sticking up that can be caught by chain and possibly pull out the anchor. With a poor set in a windshift you are more likely to rip it out. Raising the monster anchor in some bottom types might result in dangerous snatch loadings. I would go the 33. Still oversize but not stupidly. In fact if you are getting a new anchor id look at the spade, excel or mantus due to the more reliable resetting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sck5

Rocna recommends 7/16 chain for an anchor that size. Are you going to have a swivel on it? What can that take?

They do, and I have to assume that is because of the windage and weight of the boat to go along with that sized anchor, although I do believe that its possible that now the weak link could possibly be my chain and not the anchor dragging. It may well be prudent to go up to G70 chain now, something I was going to do from the beginning and just didn't.
My Rocna 25 has never drug, but I have never been in a major storm either, for all normal anchoring I'd say it's fine, and if I were staying on the Panhandle of Fl., then a Fortress may well be fine, but I intend to travel, and I have no idea what the bottom could be like where I may have to weather a storm.
Hopefully I never will, but I grew up being told that hope is not a plan.
I feel sure that the Mantus swivel I have will fit as the part that goes to the anchor is a shackle

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Jim, it's a 38 footer. That's like you guys fitting a 125lb anchor. By the same metrics your 65lb anchor is a tiddler in comparison to your windage.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

It is a 38 ft boat, but I believe compared to Jim and Ann's boat it may weigh nearly as much and has as much windage.
I believe theirs is a much lighter, faster, better performing boat with little if any "Junk" hanging onto it.
Mine is a heavy old plodding thing by comparison and I have added lots of "junk" that increases the windage

[UNCIVILIZED]

I think Jim & Ann's boat is actually lighter. IP's ain't svelte for their length.

Many fishing boats actually have less real world windage than do sailboats with all of their rigging. Somewhat due to low drag coefficients/streamlining. As masts & rigging have a huge amount of windage, & that's not including all of the crap that sailors/cruisers add onto their boats; dinghys & davits, radar archs, dodgers, mast climbing steps, & 101 other things. Plus the drag coefficient of a piece of round rigging wire is abysmal.

One bonus sailboats have for retrieving anchors if the windlass fails is winches. You simply make up a line with a chain hook on the end that goes from the bow, back to your aft corners, where you put some big blocks, & from there the lines get led to your primary winches.
It's slow, but it lets you pick up your anchor. And if you have powered winches, then it's not so slow.

And as to using chain that's incredibly overstrong, like 10mm G70, which is what I think you're considering. How in the bleep are you going to connect it to the boat? And even if you do find a way to connect it which is theoretically strong enough, what's your plan for handling the shock loads? As you can't just lock off chain that's that strong in a chain stopper, especially on a fiberglass boat, SIC.
Even 10mm G40 is stupid strong when looked at that way. I mean a 2.5t WLL.

[montenido]

I had an 80# Manson Supreme on my CSY 44 (38,000 lbs) and felt it was absolutely the right size for my boat. I never dragged and it always set. Too big? Maybe, but it gave me supreme confidence, pun intended. If the big one fits and your windlass will handle it, go for it.

Cheers, Bill

[a64pilot]

Currently I have a snubber that uses the Mantus chain hook and twin 5/8" three strand, three strand cause I think it is very elastic. That attaches to both bow cleats.
I plan on using fire hose for chafe protection, but have read where sanitation hose was used, I do not know which is better.
I have contemplated running 3/4" snubbers back to my primary winches. Before I installed my Windlass I did have to use one to raise my Rocna 25 in about 20 kts of wind once as I didn't want to try screaming back at the wife to motor the boat to the anchor, but I do cheat, I don't have electric winches, but my Milwaukee drill does a decent job of imitating one.
I have heard of tieing off to the mast, but that worries me, my luck and I'd pull the mast off of its step and I can only assume that would not be a good outcome.

I'm open to advice as I'm new to this with little experience and am developing a plan as we speak.

[sailing_gal]

I have an IP 420 and recently sailed her to Spain. I put a Rocna 33 on her with 3/8" chain. I also had a Simpson Lawrence windlass that was supposed to be rated to work just fine with that anchor.

On my way here, I had to anchor off Plaza Trafalgar on the Atlantic Coast of Spain in 55-60 + knot winds. (My Raymarine anenometer only goes as high as 60.0, I discovered). The Rocna held us beautifully in the sand, no dragging with 175 feet of chain out. Unfortunately, the windlass gave up on us when we dropped the anchor. For various reasons, we had to get to Gibraltar sooner rather than later and could not wait for the winds to subside as planned. So, we had to haul in, by hand and winch, that 175 feet of chain and the anchor.

After that experience, I would not go with a bigger anchor! that Rocna 33 will hold you just fine.

[model 10]

[QUOTE=a64pilot;2195666]C cleats.
I plan on using fire hose for chafe protection, but have read where sanitation hose was used, I do not know which is better.

Try some spiral wrap for tractor hyd hoses. The smallest I could find was 1" but if you leave the last spiral upset, it digs into the line and won't slip.

[barnakiel]

I have run some numbers thru a catenary formula. It seems, given total weight of the chain constant, a shorter and higher size chain is better than a longer lower size piece.

By better I mean shank angle is lower.

So the mathematics / physics cahoots run contrary to my earlier thin air assumptions.

This could imply when going for stronger chain (G7 vs. G4) one is better off sticking to the original size.

"If you have 10mm chain, if you upgrade to G7, stick with 10mm, do not go 8mm" in plain words.

The function is clearly not linear as the chain size/weight is not linear either. Chain is volume (3d), not area (2d), as simple as that.

Cheers,
b.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Both types of hose mentioned are waterproof, & nylon needs all of the help it can get in order to stay cool as it absorbs shock load energy. As they commonly find that it's failure mode is via melting, when used during storms. Be it as an anchor rode, or for drogues, etc. And this occurs even at loadings far, far below it's rated breaking strength.

Not that it would stop me from using Nylon, but I'd rethink the how behind such. And would also consider some of the rope which is purpose made for connecting to moorings. Like Polydyne (sp?), which is Polyester cover over a Nylon core. That's supposed to work really well in extreme loading situations. And there are a few other trade names for such rope.

[a64pilot]

I knew you had to keep the Nylon wet, and I was thinking that might be why sanitation hose would be better, it would remain open and allow water in between the rope and the hose, where fire hose might just close up.
The current dual snubber is used for regular anchoring idea of course being to give some give to the system, I think I may need something better for Storms.
I have a whole 50' piece of old firehose though, I've tried giving away some of it, but no one seems to want any.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Just making sure that you knew about the issue, so as to prevent serious problems later on

[reed1v]

Depends on where you are sailing. We carried a lot of anchors for our 43 foot ketch but none were "storm" anchors; preferring to rely on bbb chain, snubbers, and kettles to handle storm loads. Plow, danforth, and a fisherman all came through like champs when needed. We did have a "tube" for running 30' lengths of chain along the centerline cabin sole. Worked fine to distribute the weight. Made a false floor over it(we are short folks). Washing off the chain was all important.

[a64pilot]

I know the apply an irresistible force to in immovable object and something is going to give.
Had Frankly caution me too, told me about a powerboat that rode out a Storm in St Andrews bay, anchor and rode held, bow attachment didn't, it stayed connected to the anchor while the boat was beached.
Snatch loads can easily be four or more times what the constant pull is, I've seen more than a few times a bumper pulled off a truck stuck in the mud using chain where a snatch strap would pull it out without damage.
Wonder if a snatch strap would be a good snubber?

[Moontide]

I don't have any financial ties to Mantus, just a satisfied customer. Bought one of theirs for two reasons. Made in USA and price (usually have some sort of a promotion going on).

Pre-purchase I was concerned about the bolt together nature of the anchor. In retrospect, should not have been worried. Have used it for two seasons on the west coast of Mexico then from California to Maryland, usually anchoring. Only time it didn't set within a couple of feet is when we piled 60' of chain on top of it and the chain tied a knot around it.

Sometimes it takes a fair amount of RPM's to breakout, but that is fine with me.

I also went "oversize" and would do so again. It does look big up there, but I now don't jump up the first time I hear the wind rising. Your windlass will have no problem, all you should be lifting is the deadweight of the anchor, chain and whatever mud sticks to it. It is rated at 1500 lbs and even in 100' of water you'll have less than 200 on it, under 300 even with a big chunk of mud. Will want to use the engine to break it out since windlasses are not designed to do that.

Enjoy your sounder sleeping.

Bill