How big is too big?

[a64pilot]

In the Armageddon anchor thread it was brought up a couple of times that your Storm anchor ought to be your primary anchor. I see the logic, if nothing else it solves the where do you put the storm anchor question, but how big before it gets stupid?
I believe I can fit a Rocna 40, I believe I have a Windlass that can lift it (VWC 1500), and I believe it has enough surface area that it would hold in almost any survivable condition. Difference between a 25 and a 33 might not justify the cost, but a 40, well that is a whole different animal?
But is it just stupid for an IP 38 to be running around with 88 lbs of anchor hanging off the bow? Is having too much anchor like having too much money, I've heard its possible, but have yet to understand it.
Somebody talk me down cause I'm seriously considering it.
From the dimensions I can get on the internet, it is is bigger and heavier, with much more surface area, but it doesn't seem all that much bigger dimensionaly, in other words, it's not like it is twice as long or wide. It seems a 40 is a little less than 7 inches longer and I can't determine how much wider

[fallingeggs]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But is it just stupid for an IP 38 to be running around with 88 lbs of anchor hanging off the bow?

That, more or less, is the crux of the problem, isn't it? The more you value sailing performance the more you will be annoyed at the extra weight at the bow. If the boat wasn't built with that much weight in mind, it will be noticeable to some extent. Enough that you will care? That is a personal question. Maybe toss some extra weight high in the anchor locker to see? Will probably need more weight than the actual increase in the anchor to account for the anchor's increased leverage.



Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[a64pilot]

Weight wise I think is irrelevant, I have G40 chain with the idea of saving weight, I bet the heavier anchor would be a wash for the lighter chain.
Difference in weight is 33 lbs, and to be truthful I can't tell any difference with a 200 lb person on the bow. IP seems to tolerate weight on the ends better than some others I guess. I was worried about hobby horsing as I have a 200 lb genset in the Lazarette and a couple of hundred lbs of chain and anchor in the bow. Boat does sit enough lower in the water now, enough that the anti foul needs raising next bottom job.

I am wondering other than being 33 lbs heavier on the bow, what are the downsides?
I have searched the forum and all I can find is maybe it's a bear to break out, use the boats inertia and you may bring up a large chunk of real estate with the anchor, but haven't heard a reason not to oversize, or when does it just get stupid.
Rocna says you don't need to oversize, they already did that, but what does oversizing hurt, other than the wallet?

[Tayana42]

a64, the extra 42 lbs (25kg to 44 kg) isn't going to be much of an issue on your Island Packet. Chain weighs a lot more. An extra 100' of 3/8" chain adds about 150 lbs. But, check the dimensions carefully. You can download templates from Rocna to make up a cardboard cut out.

In my case I went with a Rocna 25 because the 33 shaft was too long to fit between my roller and the lid of the anchor locker.


S/V B'Shert

On edit: sorry, you replied while I was typing.

[a64pilot]

It will fit, I feel sure, I have three feet or more behind the shaft to the windlass. The roll bar may extend up a little higher than my rail though, right now the 25's roll bar is just under it, I lash the roll bar to the rail after having lost the anchor in a knockdown.

[barnakiel]

IMHO:

Rocna's own tables show 25 as the model fit for your purpose. Rocna claims the table made for " ...50 knots of wind, associated surge, and poor holding bottoms...".

I would hesitate twice before going 33 and three times before going 40.

At times you want to manhandle the thing and this is still doable on your boat. But not if you go 40 and hardly only, and while you are still very fit, with a 33.

My take with your boat design would be a R25 and quite some piece of size 10 quality chain (maybe like 200 ft, if your locker is deep and not right in the bow).

Short of it: a R40 is too much. (In my book)

b.

[Stumble]

So long as it fits there is no downside to a bigger anchor. Well, some people will laugh at you for having a massive anchor, but they are either racers or have no idea what they are talking about either way their opinions on serious anchor gear can be ignored.

[HBWT]

I'm with the general consensus. Bigger will not hurt anything except your ego when people walk by your boat and comment on the giant anchor. We have a 42 foot full keel and a spade s200 as our primary. Yeah that's 120lbs and a giant anchor. Yes it can suck sometimes getting the shank into the roller but...Trust me when I say, if the wind picks up and everyone is scrambling on anchor watch, you will be sleeping soundly below. As long as your windlass can assist with most of the heavy work, I say do it.

[a64pilot]

I have a 25 now, and a half barrel of chain, with either 400 or 600 ft of 5/8" rode too with a 18' parachute anchor in its bag and the big plastic box that has the Yanmar cruising kit and the locker still isn't half full. I don't know what they intended to put in there, but I can still seat two in the room left over.
I agree a 25 has been all I have needed in up to 40kts of wind and think for all normal anchoring conditions the 25 is good. 40 kts is all I have experienced, it may be good for more, but bottom matters too. I used to manually haul the thing in until I installed the windlass, a 25 isn't all that bad, a 40 full of mud may well be just more than I could do manually.
I feel I need to do something soon for a Storm anchor though, as in I need I believe to get one on order this week.
Call it a premonition if you will, but I don't feel I have the ground tackle to ride out a major storm. I don't want to lose the boat, soon it will be our home
So I first went down the road of buying a special storm anchor and leaving it stowed hopefully forever, but the stowable ones, I just don't trust the design all that well. Why does it not make sense to have a way oversize primary and just use it everyday?
What bad happens, what are the drawbacks?

At least some of what is driving this is that the Rocna has impressed me with it's ability to set, I have never had it not set, I can't make it not set. I grew up with Danforth anchors. They hold once you get them to set which may take several tries and then sometimes they are holding great, and seem to come loose in a wind shift and off you go downwind, they don't seem to drag, they just let go.

[ReneJK]

I was once told , if people are looking at your anchor size in awe when you arrive in the marina , its the correct size.

Personally I dont care what people think, but I do care about my anchor holding in a "stiff breeze"

[TeddyDiver]

One possibility which I'm pondering is to have two complete sets of anchoring gear, one in the bow with storm anchor and a normal sized "lunch hook" in the stern. It would be easier singlehand stern anchor most days and have the storm anchor ready to be deployed any time..

[UNCIVILIZED]

One thing to consider is that with the advent of this generation of anchors, peoples sense of what constitutes an oversized, or grossly oversized anchor has changed. As not too long ago, or even now, I don't think that too many cruisers would give you a hard time over having say an 80lb plow on your roller. Yes, they'd likely think it large, but on a serious cruising boat like yours... Not excessive. And you can read about such anchor sizing in the Dashew's books.

Also, there may be the option to try before you buy, so to speak. In that you might quitely inquire amongst some boats with bigger anchors, if they'd be willing to loan you theirs for a day of testing. With or without them onboard, & with you being responsible for the anchor of course. That way you'd have a better idea of it's possible vises, prior to buying your own.
Can't hurt to ask

BTW, Do you have chain stoppers incorporated as part of your anchoring setup as yet? And if not, will there be room for one (or two in series) on your foredeck, with or without the bigger anchor? As it strikes me as fairly vital to have such a system in place. Especially as they're not items that a lot of people think about, or are familiar with how to integrate a well designed setup into their anchoring gear & foredeck.

Another anchoring resource is the Dashew's web page www.Setsail.com & you can go to it, & search for anchoring info. It'll turn up such interesting case studies as how CF's own S/V Jedi survived a hurricane at anchor.


PS: I too am a fan of a DIY mockup idea already suggested.

[a64pilot]

I have a chain stopper, not yet installed, yes there is several feet of room. I assume the bolts that hold the stopper need to go all the way thorough the Bowsprit and have a backing plate ? That is about 8" bolts then. I am using a snubber now to keep the load off of the Windlass, but will just drop anchor sometimes and not set it if it's a Lunch stop and we are not leaving the boat.
OK, near as I can determine off of Rocna's website the 40 is seven inches longer than a 25 but only 2 " wider and about 2" or so taller. It just doesn't seem that much bigger. It does have much more surface area though, its one of those Pi R Squared things I guess

[Zai]

How much do you want for your 25?

[a64pilot]

Thanks for that link to the Dashew's page, it sort of confirmed what I had hoped to be true.