Re rig in Dyneema

[Oceanride007]

Hi, My rig is up for replacement, My local rigger happens to be a strong advocate of Dyneema and is pushing me in that direction, except for the Forestay as apparently a profurl needs Stainless.
Bit of research suggests that the price is of dyneema is coming down, the fittings can be reused so it'll be cheaper next time, resale might be iffy, insurance company doesn't have a problem with it Hanks on inner forestay will need to be considered?. We don't produce Stainless steel anymore in this country - quality?. Cosmetics?
Your thoughts are welcome, especially if you have done the switch.

[Stumble]

I have two boats with Dyneema rigging. And am still very much a fan. So much so that I wouldn't consider putting anything else on a boat anymore.

[appick]

Stumble did you diy or have them done buy a pro?

[Mark424]

Originally Posted by Stumble

I have two boats with Dyneema rigging. And am still very much a fan. So much so that I wouldn't consider putting anything else on a boat anymore.

Could you elaborate? I have a 38' cat about to go in the water w/ a Selden rig, the builder turned up his nose when I inquired about Dyneema rigging? Relative cost? weight savings? other?

[UNCIVILIZED]

My primary concern with it would be burn through of the shrouds if one lets a sheet run across it under load. Though evidently it's very, very uncommon.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by Mark424

Could you elaborate? I have a 38' cat about to go in the water w/ a Selden rig, the builder turned up his nose when I inquired about Dyneema rigging? Relative cost? weight savings? other?

We have a Corsair Sprint 750 that snapped a mast due to inclusions in the mast extrusion. At the time we reordered the choice was stainless or dyneema and we chose dyneema. Weight is probably about 1/5 or so what stainless was, size is one step up, the cost was less than stainless but I really couldn't tell you how much. The total cost of a new rig was so much the swap to dyneema was negligible, but if I had to guess I think it was less. But this is starting with a bare pole, we didn't have any legacy systems that needed to be replaced or updated to mess around with.

The Corsair now comes standard with dyneema rigging fwiw.


The second boat is an A-Class Catamaran, the cost was $80, weight savings was about 2lb (7/64 dyneema vs 7/64 dyform wire), I don't know how much new dyform would have been but the wire alone is more expensive than the dyneema. Again thanks to the mast there wasn't any legacy stuff that needed to be updated, just a little metal flap on the adjusters that's needed cutting off with a dremel tool.


From other projects I have been involved in expect the cost to switch to be roughly the same as rerigging with wire the first time. Afterwords it drops to about 1/3-1/2 since all of the end fittings can be reused. With a reasonable lifespan of about 7 years in the tropics, maybe a couple years longer further north.

If you are starting with a bare mast I would immediately call John Franta at Colligio and ask for his input. He is without question the expert on dyneema rigging. I a man sure he will reiterate this, but you must use Heat Set dyneema of one flavor or another, it's required to keep stretch down to acceptable levels.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

My primary concern with it would be burn through of the shrouds if one lets a sheet run across it under load. Though evidently it's very, very uncommon.

I can appreciate it's possible. Likely enough TO B even a real concern? Not really, well maybe on my cat with 2.5mm shrouds, but without anything larger, I just can't see it. Even if it were to stat to happen dyneema is specced to be so much stronger than the rigging it replaces you would have to cut thru the entire shroud in one go or it would be easy enough to protect.

The other option is the covered HSR, but I don't really consider that necessary, though it does extend the lifespan out to forever.

[DumnMad]

I gather that Dyneema stretches when fatigues starts to set in and it needs replacing.
Plenty of warning which is a big plus when compared to possible sudden failure of ss.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

I gather that Dyneema stretches when fatigues starts to set in and it needs replacing.
Plenty of warning which is a big plus when compared to possible sudden failure of ss.

Where did you hear that? New one for me...

Jim

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Where did you hear that? New one for me...

Jim

Not sure who says so but my dyneema lifelines (actually core blended with poly) suddenly started stretching after ...ahum... 13 years so replaced them with the same thing

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Where did you hear that? New one for me...

Jim

Hi Jim.
Port Cignet looks nice on Google.

Jedi gave a good example.
But here is a good precis of the Dyneema life cycle.

https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-a...les-of-dyneema

[Robertkwfl]

Just had my cat re-rigged with dyneema and couldn't be happier.

Weight savings was immediately apparent: the mast bent noticeably on the crane coming down, but not at all going back up.

The big surprise was that synthetic wasn't a lot more expensive than stainless. The quote for synthetic was about 10% more than the quote for ss. There will be savings in the future as replacements are an easy diy project.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Not sure who says so but my dyneema lifelines (actually core blended with poly) suddenly started stretching after ...ahum... 13 years so replaced them with the same thing

Some of the dyneema/poly blends are abysmal when it comes to stretch. Being almost as bad as double braided dacron in some respects. No offense. So it's an apples to steak comparison.

I've stretched appropriately sized poly/dyneema halyards a couple of FEET in one day's practice on a Maxi, in sub 20kt winds for example.
So buy the real deal for standing rigging.

The one incidence of burn through that I'm aware of was in maybe '03, on an OPEN 60 with deck spreaders. So not your typical boat. And that was back when synthetic rigging on big boats was still pretty much in the T&E phases.

I know that the issue of end terminals commonly occurs to people when thinking of making the swap. But also consider your spreader tips & hardware. As some boats are easier to transition than others in this regard.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Some of the dyneema/poly blends are abysmal when it comes to stretch. Being almost as bad as double braided dacron in some respects. No offense. So it's an apples to steak comparison.

I've stretched appropriately sized poly/dyneema halyards a couple of FEET in one day's practice on a Maxi, in sub 20kt winds for example.
So buy the real deal for standing rigging.

I wonder which rope you are referring to? I first had an Italian one that they called "Cruising Spectra" but forgot details and I had to re-tighten it after a week. This was in 2003 and it performed perfectly for 13 years. Last year I replaced it with Samson XLS Extra and it did not need retightening since I put it up. Samson specifies it's stretch as 0.8% at a load of 20% of breaking strength. Amsteel blue pure Dyneema is 0.7% while XLS Yacht Braid polyester is 2.2%. This makes XLS Extra almost as good as it gets without special heat treatments etc. that pure Dyneema gets sometimes.

I think that maybe what you experienced as stretch was in fact the rope weave tightening? or creep? Then again, I'm sure there are some inferior ropes around as well. The reason for me to use the blended product for lifelines is that I prefer as large a diameter as the stanchions (or is it scepters in proper English?) can accept. This would become ridiculous in a pure Dyneema product for both strength and price. I now use 10mm for the top lifeline and 8mm for the lower lifeline.

My primary running rigging is Vectran and I am replacing it with Amsteel Blue after 10 years. The Vectran just doesn't hold up in the tropical UV conditions. I am lucky to still have plenty Yale Cordage 3/8" polyester cover-only with messenger line which is a perfect fit around 1/4" Amsteel Blue for the part of the halyards that meets the clutch and winch. I think they make this so tough to find because they want to sell their strippable products like WarpSpeed, MLX, Endura Braid etc. If anyone is stripping those, please send the discarded cover sections to me

[UNCIVILIZED]

The poly/spectra blend in question that I used is, & shall remain unknown, as it was many, many years ago. But it was definitely the cordage stretching. I had a 2' long grid scale on the deck, along with witness marks on the halyards, so that I could (theoretically) rehoist the jib to the same setting each time. But with every tack, & every mark rounding, the witness mark on the line was ever moving backwards. And it took 2 practice days of this, with crap sail shape due to poor halyard tension, before the owner finally caved & purchased a vectran jib halyard.

Gotta' love it when the owner listens to his maintenance guy over the 2 America's Cuppers the maintenance guy hired as talent to win the regatta

BTW, a lot of Poly is deathly allertic to UV, so be warned about it's long term (or medium term) performance. Even if it's covered, & or coated with a UV preventative.