Re rig in Dyneema

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

...The one incidence of burn through that I'm aware of was in maybe '03, on an OPEN 60 with deck spreaders. So not your typical boat....

My cat has a genoa that sheets tight against the shrouds when on the outside track, and the sheet can also bear on the shrouds when on the inside track, if eased. So yeah, sheets rubbing on shrouds, or running across them under some load during tacking, is not unreasonable.

Genoa sheets have cut through the vinyl covers on my lifelines several places. From what I recall, it only took minutes each time. Yes, Dyneema is in another catagory, but it's a concern.

I would think some sort of cover would be in order, just in the contact areas. I'm positive it would at least fuzz-up if naked.

[roverhi]

Actually Dyneema is way simpler than swaged or mechanical terminals. Instead of swage, which to me are always questionable, or a mechanical terminal, which are expensive, splicing an onto a thimble seems way easier to do. Most of the older full keel boats have slack bilges which means they are intitially tender so anything that helps keep them upright will mean more comfortable sailing. If you go with deadeyes instead of turnbuckles, you can't a simpler set up.

The big issue is chafe. If you can cure that at the spreaders and refrain from running lines across your dyneema shrouds, they are no different than wire but so much lighter.

Someone rigged a Westsail 32 with Dynex Dux a few years back. Wonder if anyone knows how the boat is fairing??? Seems an ideal candidate for Dyneema as the spliced rigging and deadeyes will fit right into the boats character.

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The light rigging I have seen was actually sheathed, not bare wire. So burning thru should not happen.

But why use an ultramodern rigging on a classic heavy hull?

I would stay with SS wire in anything but a racer / ultra modern cruiser. Keep it simple and repairable.

b.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by thinwater

My cat has a genoa that sheets tight against the shrouds when on the outside track, and the sheet can also bear on the shrouds when on the inside track, if eased. So yeah, sheets rubbing on shrouds, or running across them under some load during tacking, is not unreasonable.

Genoa sheets have cut through the vinyl covers on my lifelines several places. From what I recall, it only took minutes each time. Yes, Dyneema is in another catagory, but it's a concern.

I would think some sort of cover would be in order, just in the contact areas. I'm positive it would at least fuzz-up if naked.

We put poly covers on he bottom 4-5 ft of the new dyneema shrouds we re-rigged a Farr 1/2 tonner with recently. (Left the backstay naked all the way)

[Boulter]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Which Dyneema are you looking at?

Hi. The only heat set I saw was New England Ropes STS HSR 75 on page 66 of 2016 catalog, Defender item 606804.

Likely a better price/product somewhere. I don't expect to get to it this season, the job list is already substantial, and I am still a month away from anything near boat working weather.

Boulter

[seandepagnier]

the temperature coefficients of metal are closer than metal and plastic, so with a metal mast and dyneema.. it is loose when cold.

But it doesn't matter much because shock loading is not as much a hazard (dyneema doesn't weaken from it)

I have dyneema 7 years, using bronze hanks on forestay and have no problems I like this. I would replace after a few more years but in the future would maybe shrink wrap the stays as this would give much longer life

[robert sailor]

I'm getting close to re rigging and I have never seriously considered Dymeema as a friend that used it wasn't keen on it but reading this thread has me interested. Does anyone know if it conducts electricity in any way, as in lightning?

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I'm getting close to re rigging and I have never seriously considered Dymeema as a friend that used it wasn't keen on it but reading this thread has me interested. Does anyone know if it conducts electricity in any way, as in lightning?

Nope, it is an insulator.

[Oceanride007]

Op here, B_Alexandra.
Are they a special bronze hank for the forestay is the forestay sheathed, is the forestay bigger in dia than the equivalent SS. When you send shrink rapped do you mean sheathed.
My boat is metal, so I expect lightening strike to go down mast, (mental note, must check lightening connection mast to hull), one great thing about Dyneeema apparently is you can run the HF antennae up the centre. Not sure yet how to get past the swage.

[Matt Johnson]

Ouch! Just checked Colligo and they now have a "Rig Builder" on their site. For just my intermediate shroud (1 side....stemball, turnbuckles, 45' 9/32"), theirs are $706 and I got mine in stainless with new turnbuckles for $194.

Matt

[SailFastTri]

I rigged my boat with 7/16" Amsteel Blue single-braid a few years back, did all my own splices. It worked OK but the problem with standard Dyneema is that you get some initial "conformal creep" lengthening as the braid weave and splices work tighter, and some true stretch that is from the fibers themselves. I had to adjust my backstay splices twice before the stretch was done, and then it stayed the same length. The Colligo Dux has been pre stretched, so that's the way to go.


I started to see some abrasion on the Dyneema shrouds after only a few months up high where the aramid/Spectra covered mainsail batten pocket was rubbing the upper shrouds when deep reaching (back-swept spreaders, and those shrouds triangulate with the forestay to hold up the mast). I'm a coastal cruiser and the degree of abrasion was minor -- but it would have been worrisome if doing an ocean crossing.


I went back to Stainless even though it's about 15-20 pounds more, because it was less worrisome and the materials were offered to me very inexpensively. I still have the Dyneema in storage. If I did it again I'd do it with Dux (not the standard Amsteel I used) and consult with John Franta at Colligo about the best way to deal with this batten chafe.

[Stumble]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

I rigged my boat with 7/16" Amsteel Blue single-braid a few years back, did all my own splices. It worked OK but the problem with standard Dyneema is that you get some initial "conformal creep" lengthening as the braid weave and splices work tighter, and some true stretch that is from the fibers themselves. I had to adjust my backstay splices twice before the stretch was done, and then it stayed the same length. The Colligo Dux has been pre stretched, so that's the way to go.


I started to see some abrasion on the Dyneema shrouds after only a few months up high where the aramid/Spectra covered mainsail batten pocket was rubbing the upper shrouds when deep reaching (back-swept spreaders, and those shrouds triangulate with the forestay to hold up the mast). I'm a coastal cruiser and the degree of abrasion was minor -- but it would have been worrisome if doing an ocean crossing.


I went back to Stainless even though it's about 15-20 pounds more, because it was less worrisome and the materials were offered to me very inexpensively. I still have the Dyneema in storage. If I did it again I'd do it with Dux (not the standard Amsteel I used) and consult with John Franta at Colligo about the best way to deal with this batten chafe.

The easy way to resolve chaff is to splice on a dyneema chaff sleeve. It's a special very tightly woven line designed to go overnight load carrying dyneema. Or you can use a technora cover like Flavored Ice.

[fishondryland]

Apologies for being off topic but I just wanted to share this impressive video of guys taking down a tree using pre-tensioned Dyneema and Vectran:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqrXO91lqpw

[Winf]

Hi all

I am about to re-rig so this is timely. Have been looking at ss with stalok to this point. Couple of things:

- is this a viable do it yourself option?
- any recommended contacts in Australia (particularly in Western Australia) for materials supply and quality advice?

Thanks Winf

[Stumble]

It is viable for DIY, but you need to be very comfortable splicing dyneema. If you aren't now, then buy some cheap stuff and get to practicing.

The major issues are

1) selecting the right rope, it must be heat set dyneema. Standard stuff does not work, it has too much stretch.

2) Unlike wire that is sized for strength dyneema is sized to control creep, so you need to pick the right size based on RM, not just try match size for size.

3) the actual splices just take a bit of practice and attention to detail. The major issue is that you need to know how much the line will shorten as a function of the splices. Because each of the shrouds needs to come out at very close to exactly the same length.

4) finally after making the shrouds you need to tension them. On larger shrouds this can be thousands of pounds of load. This sets the splices, and pretensions them to minimize the amount of constructional stretch. Ideally this is done just before installation. If you can't pre-tension them just expect a lot of constructional stretch initially, it will work itself out over a few weeks, but you have to allow for it.

[Winf]

What is the consensus on replacing the turnbuckles when you re-rig?

Existing rig is coming up on 9 years old. Recently broke a Forestay. Other work needed on and in the mast so it is coming off anyway so figured I do the rigging at the same time.

Visually the turnbuckles look ok. Not out to skimp but don't believe in wasting something that may be perfectly OK either.

Winf