Critique my running backstays thoughts.

[SailRedemption]

Your runners should be outboard and aft of your jib sheet leads. Do you not have jib sheet cars before your jib sheet winches?

[GILow]

Originally Posted by SailRedemption

Your runners should be outboard and aft of your jib sheet leads. Do you not have jib sheet cars before your jib sheet winches?

Yep, they are, when in use, but when stowed they are forward and inboard. It's the transition that is doing my head in.

[SailRedemption]

Originally Posted by GILow

Yep, they are, when in use, but when stowed they are forward and inboard. It's the transition that is doing my head in.

I understand, but since they are slack, your trimmed jib sheets will just be under them leading to the winch. In my opinion, unless you're making racing-like-speed tacks, you can just be cautious of the lazy runners as to not foul in the sheets which shouldn't be hard. I think you may be over thinking this. I would set it up and give it a try with some tacks. This way you can try setting up the lazy in different ways to see how it works(completely loose lazy runners, slack pulled in to a certain point where you can put a quick stopper, only loosen it a little, etc.) Theory and reality sometimes don't mesh and you may figure out a solution we haven't thought of for your particular boat and setup.

[JPA Cate]

But since it is the windward runner that goes on, when that sheet is lazy, where is the conflict?

Ann

[GILow]

Originally Posted by SailRedemption

I understand, but since they are slack, your trimmed jib sheets will just be under them leading to the winch. In my opinion, unless you're making racing-like-speed tacks, you can just be cautious of the lazy runners as to not foul in the sheets which shouldn't be hard. I think you may be over thinking this. I would set it up and give it a try with some tacks. This way you can try setting up the lazy in different ways to see how it works(completely loose lazy runners, slack pulled in to a certain point where you can put a quick stopper, only loosen it a little, etc.) Theory and reality sometimes don't mesh and you may figure out a solution we haven't thought of for your particular boat and setup.

Good advice.

And yes, I confess, I do sometimes overthink things.

In my defence, on heavy old boats like mine, I reckon that’s better than UNDER thinking things.

I’ll get out there and give it a go in mild conditions.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

But since it is the windward runner that goes on, when that sheet is lazy, where is the conflict?

Ann

It’s just that either the tail or the tricing line have to cross paths with the jib sheet and I’m really worried that they’ll snag at a bad moment.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by GILow

It’s just that either the tail or the tricing line have to cross paths with the jib sheet and I’m really worried that they’ll snag at a bad moment.

Go with the bungee aloft, to pull the lazy runner forward. eliminate the tricing line.

Ann

[GILow]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Go with the bungee aloft, to pull the lazy runner forward. eliminate the tricing line.



Ann

I may have to do this. [emoji853]

[El Pinguino]

Just back from a few days away down to Isla Puluqui on a chum's boat...

What he has.... tricing line lands just frd and inboard of the frd end of the track.....

Tails for runners land just inboard and frd of the turning blocks for genoa and staysail sheets....

Entire set-up... tails and tricing lines ... lies inside of the headsail sheets...

End of boom is maybe a metre ahead of the turning blocks..

[GILow]

I think I’ve seen a similar setup on my travels. Can’t remember when or where.

Will check, but I don’t think it will able to be applied to my rig.

Good trip?

[merrimac]

I have an alternative for the tricing line out of bungee cord.


On our sailboat, we have a very small (I guess ~ 2mm) Dyneema line that attaches to the same point on the runner as the bungee cord. It first goes to a small block at the base of the shrouds, then up to a block attached to the first spreader, and from there to a weight that is attached to the shroud.


This uses gravity to exert a pull forwards on the runner. When the runner is in use the weight is near the spreader. When the runner is released the weight drops and the runner is pulled forward. The maximum distance the runner can be pulled forward is limited to the height of your spreaders minus the height of the bottlescrews.



Our weights are very simple: a piece of PVC pipe, cut along its length so it can be pushed over the shroud, then wrapped with lead strip and finally self-amalgamating tape.


This has two advantages: the pull remains constant over the entire working distance, whereas the shock cord will be less effective once the runner approaches the shroud, and it doesn't snap or deteriorate as quickly as bungee/shock-cord.


Depending on your view-point it either looks very professional or a bit dingy. We like it :-)

[Bluewater664]

If you’re going to go with the 8 to 1 using a compound tackle keep in mind at the block attached to end of the running back stay needs to be very, very strong. Those loads on that block, are very high. High-strength block equals high price. By contrast a low friction ring is enormously strong and one heck of a whole lot cheaper than a block. The downside is, even though they’re called Low friction, the rings will still have more friction than a block would have.

[GILow]

Thanks Bluewater664, good point.

But, at this stage I am HOPING to implement the “direct to winch” option.

No block and tackle, no pulley on the end of the stay at all!

Of course I have to get over my aesthetic desires AND figure out how to ensure it doesn’t all knot up, but I am close on the second part of that task.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by GILow

Thanks Bluewater664, good point.

But, at this stage I am HOPING to implement the “direct to winch” option.

No block and tackle, no pulley on the end of the stay at all!

Of course I have to get over my aesthetic desires AND figure out how to ensure it doesn’t all knot up, but I am close on the second part of that task.

Spend extra on some really fancy, high tech tails with exciting cover colors for the runner. Think of them as adornment jewelry for your esthetic desires.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by GILow

Thanks Bluewater664, good point.

But, at this stage I am HOPING to implement the “direct to winch” option.

No block and tackle, no pulley on the end of the stay at all!

Of course I have to get over my aesthetic desires AND figure out how to ensure it doesn’t all knot up, but I am close on the second part of that task.

Why would it K-not up?

Taking just one side as an example.... if you have the jib / staysail sheets loaded then the tail for the running backstay is 'lazy' and can just lie there....

When the running backstay is loaded the jib/staysail sheets are slack...

I see no conflict....

Nor do I see any need for any bungee...

Just haul in on the tricing line and make it fast somewhere....

and also... unless we are talking about Shamrock V here... I see no need for blocks and tackles... just a turning block on a lizard made fast somewhere... heave the tail tight... make fast... nada mas...

The trip to my mate's bach at Peluqui? Excellent.... good lomo liso and fine carmenere .... made up for lack of wind....