Critique my running backstays thoughts.

[GILow]

Hi all,

A while back I got rid of the highfield levers on my running backstays and replaced them with a four to one block and cam cleat setup. It works ok, but I still had the original 10 mm wire stays and eye ends which are stiff, awkward, heavy and a bit too long for the whole setup to work well.

Now I am ready to replace those wire stays with dyneema.

I was thinking of replacing things pretty much as they are, but I've read about the idea of using a single block on the end of the stay, and having a 2:1 rough adjustment system combined with the 4:1 block for getting the tension on. (Plus a tricing line to bring the unused stay forward when not in use by releasing the cam on the 2:1 adjustment.)

This all appeals, because it seems I could easily rig it all so that it can be managed without leaving the cockpit.

The 2:1 setup means no piles of unused line for the 4:1 blocks when the stay is in use too.

So, with all of this, I started to think maybe a low friction ring on the end of the stay, because I really like the idea of not having something heavy like a block swinging around on the end of the stay.

How does all this sound?

The boat is a pretty conservatively rigged cutter, the running backstays are used any time I use the staysail to get a good shape on the staysail luff.

The mast and rigging are both pretty solid so the running backstays are not needed to keep the mast standing upright, just to keep the staysail drawing well.

Matt

[Snowpetrel]

Like this system on a 42 footer? Seems like a good way to go, though I would use small winches instead of the 4:1 on the tail. Probably buying winches is cheaper than buying the 4:1 hardware. Or just use a lazy sheet winch.

[Paul L]

When I went to dyneema runners I got rid of my 8 to 1 tackle. I use a ring to route the tail to the lazy jib sheet winch. Its never in use when I have tbe runner set on the windward side. I also added the small line to run everything to the chainplates when not in use. Much cleaner than my previous setup.

[GILow]

Hmmmm. Two respected CF members telling me to use a winch.

And, I do have a spare winch. There are separate winches for the yankee and staysail, so technically I have TWO spare winches.

Sigh.

The problem is, I really LOVE the nautical look of those 4:1 blocks.

Time to let go of the image fixation I fear.

[GILow]

On a side note, I’ve walked around the marina looking at other people’s setups and I have to say, most are utterly crap. Seriously bad. I could not find one that did not involve leaving the cockpit to tack.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by GILow

On a side note, I’ve walked around the marina looking at other people’s setups and I have to say, most are utterly crap. Seriously bad. I could not find one that did not involve leaving the cockpit to tack.

Yep! Much of what you see on a fair few boats is utter crap and doesn't work effectively or well at sea.

If you have a big winch spare I'd be reasonably keen on just going 1:1 onto the winch. Much simpler and less line than a 2:1 tackle.

[GILow]

Ok. Straight to the winch is certainly a practical option.

But...

How to make it look all butch and nautical?

[Snowpetrel]

^^ hang some baggywrinkle off it...

[GILow]

At that height it will just look like I’ve put the mop out to dry.

[Hesti]

As for the tricing line, eventually we rigged shock cord (you need quite a bit of length) and a block to pull the backstay to the shrouds. Worked fine, one line less you have to handle when tacking / jybing.

Tackles / winches - there may be reasons for it, especially about trim. The good thing with a lever is, that it is faster than tackles or winches. When you have a small line from your lever or close to your lever to the eye in the end of the backstay (and the shock cord arrangement), you can just pull the eye to the lever, put it on the hook and work the lever. Disengaging is even faster.

On a cutter with backstays, you have quite a number of ends to handle when tacking or gibing and having the boat well set up on the new course in a short time was always somehing I appreciated.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Hesti

.... The good thing with a lever is, that it is faster than tackles or winches. When you have a small line from your lever or close to your lever to the eye in the end of the backstay (and the shock cord arrangement), you can just pulle the eye to the lever, put it on the hook and work the lever. Disengaging is even faster.


On a cutter with backstays, you have quite a number of ends to handle when tacking or gibing and having the boat well set up on the new course in a short time was always somehing I appreciated.

What sort of levers do you have? My highfields must weigh a few kg each. I can’t imagine containing them with any normal shock cord.

But yes, it’s nice to quickly get things in order after tacking, though being a cruiser who does not race, it’s usually a few hours between tacks.

[Hesti]

T'was in the 90's, our first boat. The backstay levers had hooks (probably not originally, but added later), so you could unhook the eye of the backstay from the lever in an instant if the lever was cast loose. The backstay was then pulled to the shroud by the shock cord, which ran through a pulley to allow for much more length of shock cord to work than the distance between the shroud and the backstay. A thin line from the the eye of the backstay to the lever or near the lever and you could pull the eye to the lever again. It worked well, no backstay clutter anymore. If needed, I can provide a sketch.

[GILow]

I would love to see a sketch please. But don’t rush, it’s bed time here in the land of Oz.

[Hesti]

.. here is a sketch of a lever with hook. On our boat, the hook was bent from rod and welded to the bushing that goes over the pin on the lever. If the backstay ends in an eye, you can hook and unhook the eye of the backstay.

[Hesti]

... and here is a sketch of the shock cord arrangement, where

white is your shroud
yellow is the backstay
red is the shockcord, pulling the backstay to the shroud when the lever is cast loose and the end of the backstay is unhooked from the lever
light blue is the sheave of the block that the shockcord runs through
dark blue is the deck


It worked quite well for us.