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Old 24-08-2011, 13:39   #46
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously...

i would think then that one would be able to build a urinal into the head compartment that flows directly over the side well above the waterline, it could be under the washbasin so it is rinsed when you wash your hands, it should be legal, as you are not containing it before disposal.

Nope...won't fly.

CFR defines "discharge" as " It's illegal to "discharge"("ncludes, but is not limited to, any spilling, leaking, pouring, pumping, emitting, emptying, or dumping") "sewage" ("human body wastes and the wastes from toilets and other receptacles intended to receive or retain body waste").

All of which means that that it cannot even pass through anything between you and the water.

As for pee bottles, I doubt if you could find enough Natures Head or Airhead users who actually carry 'em ashore to fill up a poker table!

Ever thought of put all that creative energy into something that could actually be useful?
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Old 24-08-2011, 13:51   #47
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

urine is actually a sterile solution of around 95% water with a mix of mostly salts of various kinds making up the remaining 5%, so it isn't actually covered by the waste laws regarding marine discharge. Those regulation concern the volume by ml of ecoli bacteria in the discharge. Since the urine has no ecoli, it meets the safety standards for legal discharge."

Sorry Sarafina, but it doesn't. E-coli and other bacteria count only applies to the discharge of TREATED waste from a USCG Certified Type I or II MSD (treatment device)...when it comes to "raw" waste directly from the toilet or a tank or a bucket or a urine jug, US marine sanitation law does not distinguish between urine and solid waste...it prohibits the discharge of "human body wastes," which include both fecal matter and urine.
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Old 24-08-2011, 14:08   #48
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

Don't forget to separate saliva from frothy toothpaste when you spit after brushing your teeth
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Old 24-08-2011, 14:09   #49
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by peghall View Post
t prohibits the discharge of "human body wastes," which include both fecal matter and urine.
that was sorta my point earlier...
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Old 24-08-2011, 14:11   #50
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

These are the bags I'm talking about. If you're going to dump the composting heap into the water, use these guys. They wrap tight enough around the top that you don't make a mess, and they break down pretty quickly in the sunlight/water.

http://www.amazon.com/BioBag-Tall-Ki...ef=pd_sim_hg_5
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Old 24-08-2011, 15:06   #51
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

I luv that bow-tie yer wearin Madwand!!
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Old 24-08-2011, 15:36   #52
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pirate Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

I think for live-aboards its a joke designed to sell to gullible w-end sailors under the guise of being 'Green'....
Just another scam...
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Old 24-08-2011, 15:44   #53
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

My wife and I have discussed considering a composting head but her concern is, to put it discreetly, her monthly visitor which would not be suitable for the liquid separation container but would add a lot of liquid and potentially smell to the solid container. Is that an issue? I don't recall any comments on that.
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Old 24-08-2011, 16:38   #54
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

What if you mounted a seat off the stern, and do the direct deposit ? Obviously you dont want to do this in the marina......but would it be a violation 30 miles off shore?
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Old 24-08-2011, 18:37   #55
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

As long as you're in open ocean at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline or any island, you can do anything you want to.

Inshore, this might be an answer... I'm thinkin' transom mount...with a seatbelt: bumper dumper portable toilet

However, you would have to take it ashore or out to sea to empty it. While at sea beyond the "3 mile limit" the bag or bucket would unnecessary...though I'd keep the seatbelt.
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Old 24-08-2011, 20:43   #56
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

I have been a live-aboard for 8 years, the last 3 of which with an Airhead on board. This is my principal toilet even when berthed in a marina. During the time I've had the Airhead I've not made any long distance cruises. Just coastal cruises between the Chesapeake and The Bahamas and Florida. However on my last trans Atlantic passage, my conventional marine head packed in halfway between Bermuda and the Chesapeake. Clearing that mess was my main motivation to invest in an Airhead.

Some of my experience with and observations of this toilet.
  • It is perfectly suitable for live aboard singles and couples. I wouldn't recommend either the Airhead or Nature's Head for families of 4 or more, unless it were a second toilet.
  • I do not anticipate a problem using the Airhead on ocean passages. I carry a spare Urine bottle (something I recommend for all composting toilet users). If the seas are too rough to carry a full bottle into the cockpit to pour overboard, I will just switch bottles and store the full (and sealed) bottle in the shower stall. Checking the compost bin and emptying it if it is nearly full would be a normal part of heavy weather preparations. This requires re-hydrating a couple of COIR (dried cocanut husks) bricks before departing. That's about the volume of 2 one-gallon plastic bags. You can re-hydrate the bricks in a bucket in the cockpit while underway, but maybe it is already too rough to do that easily.
  • When berthed or at anchor, depositing the contents of the bin ashore is no more problematic than disposing of garbage.
  • Legally disposing of Urine is a drawback. When at anchor the only real option is to pour it over board. Pouring it down a sink is not easily detected (although it does require cleaning the sink and flushing the drain to prevent odors). However I could be challenged by an authority to explain where all the Urine is after I've been continuously anchored for 2 weeks. I guess I'll have to take the 5th in that case.
  • Only one guest and no crew have ever had a problem using the toilet. I am very pleased that one guest does not want to ever spend time on my boat again. That was worth the price of the toilet by itself. I have had 2 crew (in addition to myself) on board for periods of up to 3 weeks with no problems. Actually several of the crew liked the system so well they are considering one for their boats.
  • I deposit soiled TP in a lined basket next to the toilet. When off-shore I provide paper lunch bags for the TP, to be dropped over board after each use. This was a practice I adopted years before I installed the Airhead. Scaling in the sewage hoses is the most common cause of a blockage, but the item that generates the blockage is normally TP. Not putting the TP in the compost bin is just the force of habit, but it also does not fill the bin quite as quickly as otherwise.
  • The potential for bug infestation is another drawback. If this happens, the solution requires sanitizing the bin, seat and vent hose with boiling water. This happened to me once and the boiling water fixed it.
Based on the experience described above, I would never want to go back to a conventional marine toilet with or without a holding tank. Others will read my experience may decide a composting toilet is not a viable choice.

John

CAVEAT: I am a single live aboard.
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Old 25-08-2011, 07:11   #57
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

Thanks John for a very non biased description of living with a composting toilet. I have installed a couple of airheads, one for a customer and one in my own catamaran. The customer loves his after using it for about 6 yrs so far with a family of 4 coastal cruising.Unfortunatly i never got to use mine as the boat burned in a warehouse fire. I have been following every thread on this subject for a number of years and what i have noticed is that almost everyone who has a composter has been driven to it by prior experience with conventional marine head/holding tank systems and would never go back whereas those who critisize have no real basis for comparing the two systems. I know for a fact that a holding tank system can be settup to minimize problems having installed systems that absolutly do not smell, unfortunatly we have a lot more problem systems around here than good ones. I have seen claims that the composters are more expensive and while this may be true for the appliance only it is not the case when you factor in thru hulls seacocks,holding tank ,deck and vent fittings and the very expensive hose and dont forget to allow for periodic replacement of the hose and the cost of pumpouts and if you dont have the skills to do the installation it will cost you many times more to have a holding tank system professionally installed than a composter. I have to admit though that when you already have a functioning system then switching can seem expensive which is why i havnt done so on my current boat, i dont like the boat enough to make the investment so i recently replumbed with solid PVC, a thorough scrub and some air fresheners and the stink is gone, nasty job though. Our boat is weekend use only and we dont have pumpout facilities at our dock so it is a big hassle to take it to the marina just to pumpout so we avoid using the head by peeing in a bottle to dump later and trying to take care of #2 before going out if daysailing, the ladies of course still use the head, so for us a composter would be ideal.
Steve.
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Old 25-08-2011, 08:41   #58
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by clockwork orange View Post
...what i have noticed is that almost everyone who has a composter has been driven to it by prior experience with conventional marine head/holding tank systems and would never go back whereas those who critisize have no real basis for comparing the two systems....
I think you have hit the nail on the head. It seems like those with more head problems in their past are more willing to go to the trouble of using a composter/dessicator. I don't think it is necessarily "criticism" to comment on some of the issues involved though. While I have never used a composting toilet I have carried a "pee bottle" and I have never had a toilet problem that was bad enough to make me resort to doing that on even a semi regular basis.

I think everyone has their own level of comfort/discomfort in this area. I rebuild and replace all the seals on the toilet every year and get a certain satisfaction out of it, while I know folks who think it is the worst job in the world and put it off forever. A toilet backup to me would be an inconvenience. Carrying my pee off the boat and carrying peat would be more of one. So there are some issues that are inherent to the process that can make it more or less palatable to users and good descriptions like are seen here are very helpful.

I could see the benefit on a small boat with weekend use in an area with poor pumpout though. For a larger boat that can have an adequate size holding tank to only have to pump out occasionally I think I will stick to the "less complicated" system of toilet and holding tank.

Jim
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Old 25-08-2011, 08:49   #59
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What about feeding the urine through the RO water maker.... That's whats done on space lab. 100% pure drinkable water and eliminates the urine legally
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Old 25-08-2011, 09:45   #60
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Re: Nature's Head (???) Seriously . . .

And speaking of holding tanks, I read where the dump line/valve has to be locked so that no discharge can be made while in inland waters, so how is that done and tagged?

Makes me think the best way is a bucket with a trash bag inside.

And that three mile limit, is that three miles from the most easterly US territory and a 00/180 degree line from that point in the Atlantic? That would be a ways out from say Hilton Head. Or is there some north south limiting point?

We just bought a nice portapottie, but after getting it home and looking at it, seems the bowl is waaaay to shallow for a real adult to use, it will likely hit the bottom and it's still being dropped and that could be messy! That's a small hole down there in the bottom.

I think most boaters in the Ozarks just go swimming and then move upstream.....
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