Ferry And Powerboat Collide

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Seattle traffic likely has the whole incident recorded on radar. I'm curious about your thoughts on the ferry's 5 short blasts of its whistle? Clearly he thought he was in the right.

5 blasts is "danger! look out!" in any situation, isn't it? It's not necessarily asserting right of way.

Yes, I'm very interested in what a hearing makes of this incident. I don't think having your morning movement while underway in a busy seaway was particularly prudent.

I frequently sail in Toronto harbour with its ferry traffic. They're professional, usually courteous around sailboats, but can be deceptively fast. You learn to watch for them, to be obvious in your heading and intentions, and plan accordingly.

[admiralslater]

I just re watched the video and I still think that the ferry was restricted inability to maneuver ,I appreciate that are posters here that know the area . In the film land is visible in the 3 quadrants that we can see .The land is reasonably close ahead. We cannot see what if any impediments the ferry faced before the start of the video , perhaps there where vessels in the vicinity that limited his choices.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

My friend, you should review the colregs. The term "burdened vessel" is not in them, but is generally used to indicate the vessel that is required to give way in a rule of the road situation. I've never heard the term "bow to beam bearing" - although it may be alliterative, it has no real meaning. Steady or constant bearing (as in CBDR) are more common descriptives.

I had learned most of what I know through the Canadian power squadron in the early 70's. I stand by what I know. I'm sure COLREG's has different terminology.

[TacomaSailor]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Or just mud stirred up off of the bottom

Water depth exceeded 320 fathoms (~2000') - Dalco Passage is over 500' deep just 10-yards off shore.

[admiralslater]

forgot to mention that as far as I know ,5 blasts indicate "your intentions are unclear" which is appropriate in the circumstances.
I just thought of this, which is apropos for this circumstance it could also mean "Sh-t or get off the pot"

[pcmm]

Keep in mind that (Usually) the ferry has the right of way and this is listed on the charts in their "lanes" if he was close to the terminal then he may not have had the room to avoid. I run into this problem all the time in Toronto where powerboaters and sailors will sail right infront of a ferry and then bitch that they had the right of way when they didn't.

I saw an instance a number of years ago where a wooden folkboat almost got turned into match sticks because he "believed" he had the right of way.

in shipping lanes ( or ferry lanes) someone must always be on watch, just in case.

[TacomaSailor]

The comments I see here indicate a lot of folks do not understand how much ferry and commercial traffic there is in Central Puget Sound. Any small boat operator must know how to maneuver around those large ships and must understand how to communicate and cooperate with them to avoid problems.

The USCG reported that, within 20-miles of Seattle, there were 640 large ship movements on the average day in August 2016.

Between Edmonds/Kingston and Southworth/Vashon/West Seattle (~12 Nautical Miles) there are four ferry runs (using eight ferries) crossing the sound every half hour. That means there are ALWAYS at least four 18-knot superferries moving at more than 18-knots. Those ferries are 402' long, carry 200 vehicles, and 2,500 passengers. They do not travel in a straight line and make sudden large course changes.

WSF ferries crossed Puget Sound 500 times A DAY during August 2016.

The Port of Seattle is the 3rd busiest container ship port in the US. The Port of Tacoma, which is 25-miles further south is only slightly less busy.

The USCG reported container, freighter, and tanker ships transited Puget Sound 30 times A DAY. There were 30 commercial fishing operations per day in Puget Sound. And, most difficult to understand and maneuver around, there were 80 tugs with tows moving about on the average day.

[tozz]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

The comments I see here indicate a lot of folks do not understand how much ferry and commercial traffic there is in Central Puget Sound. Any small boat operator must know how to maneuver around those large ships and must understand how to communicate and cooperate with them to avoid problems.

A simple day trip to Blake island from Elliott Bay Marina may mean encounters with at least 4 ferries, a couple of tankers, at least 1 cruise ship, the argosy, he clipper, and the small craft working their pots for prawn/crabs...each way. And don't get me started on the floating debris after a storm in the sound. Head on a swivel indeed.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Keep in mind that (Usually) the ferry has the right of way and this is listed on the charts in their "lanes" if he was close to the terminal then he may not have had the room to avoid. I run into this problem all the time in Toronto where powerboaters and sailors will sail right infront of a ferry and then bitch that they had the right of way when they didn't.

I saw an instance a number of years ago where a wooden folkboat almost got turned into match sticks because he "believed" he had the right of way.

in shipping lanes ( or ferry lanes) someone must always be on watch, just in case.

I always treat a ferry as a "Moving Island" and it's not a problem.

[Pyxis156]

To assist in our armchair quarterbacking, a chart of the area where the collision took place. Based on the video, I estimate that the ferry was approximately 1/2 mile from shore which would put the collision right about where the dashed red ferry route and the dashed black line for the Gig Harbor light intersect. I also estimate Nap Tyme's course to be almost exactly that dashed black line as that is where his waypoint would have been taking him back home to Gig Harbor. Depths are in fathoms.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Pyxis156

To assist in our armchair quarterbacking,

Thanks for the chart. Too bad the small boat skipper couldn't have waited like 30 second before going for a dump.

I guess plotters now need to take in known ferry routes and AIS info, and draw "no poop" zones on the screen.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

The comments I see here indicate a lot of folks do not understand how much ferry and commercial traffic there is in Central Puget Sound. Any small boat operator must know how to maneuver around those large ships and must understand how to communicate and cooperate with them to avoid problems.

The USCG reported that, within 20-miles of Seattle, there were 640 large ship movements on the average day in August 2016.

Between Edmonds/Kingston and Southworth/Vashon/West Seattle (~12 Nautical Miles) there are four ferry runs (using eight ferries) crossing the sound every half hour. That means there are ALWAYS at least four 18-knot superferries moving at more than 18-knots. Those ferries are 402' long, carry 200 vehicles, and 2,500 passengers. They do not travel in a straight line and make sudden large course changes.

WSF ferries crossed Puget Sound 500 times A DAY during August 2016.

The Port of Seattle is the 3rd busiest container ship port in the US. The Port of Tacoma, which is 25-miles further south is only slightly less busy.

The USCG reported container, freighter, and tanker ships transited Puget Sound 30 times A DAY. There were 30 commercial fishing operations per day in Puget Sound. And, most difficult to understand and maneuver around, there were 80 tugs with tows moving about on the average day.

Thanks for that Tacoma Sailor, what a busy area . How far is the collision area from the main channels

[Pyxis156]

And something that may be helpful to explain a more "official" view of the rights ferries have in this area. While focused primarily on sailboat / ferry interaction, it clarifies ferry rights in general. In a nutshell, ferries operate under COLREGS and there are no special privileges afforded to them other than a "large passenger security and safety zone" of 500 yards under federal law.

The document also happens to spell out exactly what the five horn blasts mean (and you hear that fairly often around here in the summertime when there are a lot of knuckleheads out). Specifically: "Sometimes a ferry may sound at least five short and rapid blasts on their whistle. This is known as the Danger signal and means that the ferry does not understand the actions or intentions of another vessel, or is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken to avoid collision."

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Keep in mind that (Usually) the ferry has the right of way and this is listed on the charts in their "lanes"

Not true. The dashed lines on the chart do indicate ferry routes, but these are not at all the same as the shipping lanes (where a ship is presumed to be restricted in ability to maneuver and so is the privileged vessel). The ferry routes are merely advisory and confer no special rights to the ferry. In fact, at least on some routes, the ferries often deviate significantly from the lines marked on the charts.

It may have been inconvenient for the ferry to alter course / speed to avoid this collision, and it was certainly impolite and stupid for the power boat to maintain course and speed (and illegal to not be keeping watch), but unless there are details we are unaware of I believe that the ferry was in the wrong.

[Pyxis156]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

Thanks for that Tacoma Sailor, what a busy area . How far is the collision area from the main channels

As you can see in the chart snippet, there are no traffic channels in that area and you almost never get container or freighter traffic through there, but every once in a while a freighter will "sneak" out from Tacoma through Colvos Passage to the north in the upper part of the chart snippet. Port of Tacoma is to the SE of the area in the chart. However you do get a considerable amount of tug traffic as there are logging and quarry operations to the south and all that traffic must pass through this chokepoint.