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Old 22-09-2011, 13:44   #1
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Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?




http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1778&url=

It's way more boat than I currently need, but in a few years (5) I would like to do some extensive cruising in the Caribbean. I'm currently on the Gulf Coast and would use it in that area until the time comes-- cruise to Key West and the Bahamas, etc.

How much would I lose at this price if my plans change and I need to sell in, say, 2-5 years?

$200K is pretty much my price limit, and I really need to be around $175K to allow for various expenses over the 5 years.

How much is this deep draft going to hold me back in coastal cruising? I know I will be limited in the Bahamas somewhat-- just did a trip there this summer and it was pretty shallow in lots of areas.

What else should I consider?

Thanks,
Cardude
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Old 22-09-2011, 20:08   #2
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

96,000 lbs? Is it an ice breaker?

It looks to me like a potential budget buster for your budget. I would be very carefull about planning your refit budget.

I would worry about the draft and the fuel consumption of such a heavy boat.
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Old 22-09-2011, 20:21   #3
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

Before even thinking about buying I would have the engine checked very, very closely. 2700 hours is not that much on that diesel but it is 27 years old. If the engine died you could drop your planned $25K cruising budget before you left the dock.

Even if the engine is good now I would also check the availabilty of parts for a 27 year old diesel. And, even if the engine is good you could still drop $25K on fixing the boat up to cruise. The spending has just begun when you buy the boat.
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Old 22-09-2011, 20:39   #4
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Thanks for the replies. The fuel burn is allegedly 3.4 gph at 8 knots in calm seas.

I agree on the parts issue. I need to check around. Found some places in the UK that have parts available but not the US yet.

96000 lbs. sounds too heavy? I think it has 15000 in the keel alone.

Like I said it's too much boat for now, but I want something I can take to the Caribbean, through the canal, etc. eventually. Will I be able to afford to keep it updated until we are ready is a concern.
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Old 22-09-2011, 21:11   #5
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

A Mainship 47 is 40,000 lbs.
A Nordhaven 43 is 60,000 lbs. And a Nordhaven is kind of ridiculously overbuilt unless you are going to Antarctica.

Then again I know nothing about trawlers, so I may be missing something.
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Old 22-09-2011, 21:18   #6
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

Obviously, without a survey, what follows is wild speculation...

Nice looking boat. Price seems a little low. THAT means it probably needs work.

I would say if you could buy this boat and have $50k left over for upgrades and emergency repairs, you might be in OK shape. With your budget, I can't imagine how you could succeed with this boat.

IMHO, it's too deep for a boat specifically chosen for hanging out in the Caribbean, but not so deep as to keep you from visiting. It's about a foot deeper than the Nordhavn 43. But the 43 is only about 60,000lbs. The 47 is 85,000.

Gardner parts should be able to be found in the UK. (Just like parts for a 30 year old Cat can be found in the US). The Gardner is a seriously over-built very-heavy duty engine. BUT, if not maintained, could be worthless. I'd get a separate engine survey from a Gardner specialist. It would be worth it even if the only person I could find meant I had to pay their airfare from the UK.

For my tastes, if I had the money, I'd be rushing to take a look at it...

-dan
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Old 23-09-2011, 05:09   #7
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Does it make sense for this boat this heavy (96000 lbs) to have a stated (by the broker) gph of 3.4 with a 170hp engine at 8 knots?

If it has a S/L ratio of 1.25 and if F1=195 and F2=1.70 that comes out to 331hp needed to push the boat 8 knots according to this formula.

What am I doing wrong?
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Old 23-09-2011, 05:25   #8
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

For the Caribbean I think it is too much boat. For $ 200K I think you can find something much newer and more economical with a shallower draft. I have cruised the Bahamas and live in the Keys For those areas the deeper your draft the more limited are your cruising options.
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Old 23-09-2011, 05:27   #9
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

I don't think that weight is the boat as she floats, but with a full cargo? ie maximum weight?

Chris
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Old 23-09-2011, 05:35   #10
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

Beautiful boat, if I were looking for a trawler I'd get carried away with dreams of this boat. Refitting to meet your needs could cripple you before you start, and she will not be cheap to run. If you're really serious go look at her, then do a five year realistic assessment of cost versus benefit, if the sums don't add up in your favor, walk away and chase a more suitable dream.
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Old 23-09-2011, 09:43   #11
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude View Post
Does it make sense for this boat this heavy (96000 lbs) to have a stated (by the broker) gph of 3.4 with a 170hp engine at 8 knots?

If it has a S/L ratio of 1.25 and if F1=195 and F2=1.70 that comes out to 331hp needed to push the boat 8 knots according to this formula.

What am I doing wrong?
I'm not sure but check this out. Boat Speed Calculator 170 seems about right for 1.34. I cant' imagine that boat is that heavy. (Good thing Beebe didn't need internet calculators!)
That's a pretty boat. With oil samples I wouldn't be afraid of the Gardner. If you are in the market for a boat like this I would be on my way to look at it. Fast. In this market 175 may take it home.
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Old 23-09-2011, 11:39   #12
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

Quote:
I'm not sure but check this out. Boat Speed Calculator 170 seems about right for 1.34. I cant' imagine that boat is that heavy. (Good thing Beebe didn't need internet calculators!)
That's a pretty boat. With oil samples I wouldn't be afraid of the Gardner. If you are in the market for a boat like this I would be on my way to look at it. Fast. In this market 175 may take it home.
I guess I didn't figure that correctly. I'm no Bebee, obviously. Thanks for the online calculator, which shows max hp needed for 8 knots max is about 180hp. At 75% of max HP (Bebee recommended) it should do about 7knots.

The Gardner is supposed to be good for 40000 hours. I'll be dead by then.......

I priced a new injector pump from the UK and they run about $2000 us, and this boat comes with a spare.

I told the broker I was thinking around $175K, and he said make the offer-- they may take it, which worries me. The owners are making their home on an island somewhere and don't need the boat anymore allegedly.

Now I've gotta decide if I really need this big heavy boat............but it seems cheap to me. Like a poor man's Nordhaven!?

Quote:
Beautiful boat, if I were looking for a trawler I'd get carried away with dreams of this boat.
I think that's what's happening to me. Reading Bebee's book and doing some big-time dreaming.

Quote:
For the Caribbean I think it is too much boat. For $ 200K I think you can find something much newer and more economical with a shallower draft. I have cruised the Bahamas and live in the Keys For those areas the deeper your draft the more limited are your cruising options.
What type of boat would you recommend? I like the idea of a "go anywhere" boat, even though I probably wont. Sure like those flopper stoppers. Is the age of this boat going to kill me on resale?

Quote:
Nice looking boat. Price seems a little low. THAT means it probably needs work.

I would say if you could buy this boat and have $50k left over for upgrades and emergency repairs, you might be in OK shape. With your budget, I can't imagine how you could succeed with this boat.

IMHO, it's too deep for a boat specifically chosen for hanging out in the Caribbean, but not so deep as to keep you from visiting. It's about a foot deeper than the Nordhavn 43. But the 43 is only about 60,000lbs. The 47 is 85,000.

Gardner parts should be able to be found in the UK. (Just like parts for a 30 year old Cat can be found in the US). The Gardner is a seriously over-built very-heavy duty engine. BUT, if not maintained, could be worthless. I'd get a separate engine survey from a Gardner specialist. It would be worth it even if the only person I could find meant I had to pay their airfare from the UK.

For my tastes, if I had the money, I'd be rushing to take a look at it...
Dan, thanks for the insight. Where will I not be able to go in the Caribbean with this deep draft? Can I not rely on a larger dingy much of the time-- like a 14' Whaler?

Agree on the engine survey.

Who would be a good person to survey this unique boat in your opinion?

And my budget could go to $225 if I wanted to, giving me the $50K in possible repairs. Just trying to be cheap.

However, I do catch myself wondering, should I pay $175-225K for 28 year old boat? Yes, it had a "major refit" in 2007-2008 but still, when I try to sell I'm worried to most buyers will it just be an "old boat"? What percentage of people will really "get it"?
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Old 23-09-2011, 13:14   #13
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

First, even though the ad equates paravanes and flopper stoppers, they are not the same thing. That boat has paravanes.

Paravanes are underwater wings to help stabilize while underway.
Flopper-stoppers look like mushrooms, usually in groups, and are used to dampen motion while at anchor.
They are both deployed from outriggers. So, you COULD have flopper stoppers on that boat, but the only thing I saw in the photos was a paravane.

Second, just keep in mind that this boat has sophisticated systems for crossing oceans. You'll have to maintain them. I think the upkeep will be more than you think.

I'm not saying don't buy it. I'm just trying to help you be realistic about it.

At the price they are offering it, and at its age, and (judging from the photos) the apparant age of the systems, I'd be concerned about ongoing maintenance costs.

For surveyors, I know of one in Charleston I have used. I'll check and see if I can find the name. But, you could look on the SAMS site and find someone. For a Gardner engine survey, I got no idea. Google is your friend.

As to specific places you would not be able to get into? I don't know. I've never been there. I was basing that on countless threads in here where people say those areas are shallow enough where a shoal keeled boat can get in places that a fin keel cannot. The consensus seems to be that you can get around fine with that draft, but it will sometimes limit your choices.

-dan

First 2 photos are of paravanes. Last is flopperstoppers. Flopperstoppers CAN be deployed fro the outriggers.
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Old 23-09-2011, 15:54   #14
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

My # one concern if I were to buy something like this, would be financial. Do I have the $$$, and since we are on a budget, the skills and $$$, to keep the boat up. That is ALOT of boat to maintain. Just the haulouts, and bottom paint would be a large bill. However, if it is built well, and kept up with, then perhaps it would be manageable. The key is that the previous owners would have had to keep up with things, and you will need to too.

Chris

PS- I like the boat - I have always had a thing for brawny boats.
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Old 23-09-2011, 16:16   #15
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Re: Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ?

Check out the engine hours...sounds low, very low to me. Twenty eight years old equals less than100 hours a year or less than 2 hour a week. Somehow just doesn't add up for a trawler. Other than that a nice sturdy looking boat.
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