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23-10-2017, 15:15
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sailing Lake Ontario
Boat: Mirage 35
Posts: 1,123
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Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
I've been inspired by a couple of recent posts in this category, so decided to add my confession and maybe provide food for thought for others who aren't yet perfect at docking or undocking (is that a word?)
In a small marina we were at the outermost slip with the stern to the entrance, so backing out with a slight turn to starboard should have done it with no problem. Except that there was a brisk breeze from starboard toward the rest of the marina.
I figured I could just get some way on and back upwind - the boat loves to do that - but ... it takes distance to get sufficient speed. Instead I was just pushed toward the rest of the boats in that row. Heads started popping up and several able bodies appeared on the docks and boats to push me off, which was just as well because I was at risk of getting seriously tangled.
Once I realized that there was no way the original approach would work, I fortunately had the good sense to switch to forward and just head back into the slip for another think. Plan "B" was to loop a dock line around a cleat and use it to hold the stern in while backing out - that gave the extra space and speed required to gain speed and turn as originally planned.
Then we headed to the nearby community dock for a pump-out. That one was dead easy: wide open and with the wind in a cooperative direction. But by that point the entire marina was on hand to assist, push me off when I was done, and minimize risk to their property.
Lessons learned:
- I consistently underestimate the effect of wind in conditions like this.
- When in trouble in tight quarters, going back where you came from is often an easy and effective option.
- Stopping and thinking (in my case out loud helps) for a few more minutes before acting can save trouble later.
- When you screw up there will be an audience.
The good news: the only damage done was to my ego.
__________________
Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.
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23-10-2017, 15:35
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 400
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
Good story. Glad it worked out.
Love your lesson 4! It could be 110F in the shade with 100 humidity and no one in sight - until one minor thing happens. Then no one seems to care about the temperature and humidity. I don’t mean the owners who are interested in protecting their own boats - I expect them to pop up and guard. It’s all the other ones who seem to pop out just for the “fun” of it
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23-10-2017, 17:31
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,007
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
Using lines to control and turn a boat in a predictable fashion while leaving a slip really seems to be a lost art. It seems that a lot of people think it is "cheating" or in some other way unmanly. Quite the contrary, is is just good seamanship.
When I was making living teaching people how to handle cruising boats we insisted that they use a line controlled departure EVERY TIME.
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23-10-2017, 17:36
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sailing Lake Ontario
Boat: Mirage 35
Posts: 1,123
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
In fact, in the course I took not long ago the most important thing I learned that I didn't know before was how to use a spring line. And I have a book or two that elaborate on those skills, and I look for occasions to practice them.
I just don't always think of it ahead of time .
__________________
Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.
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24-10-2017, 04:27
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 3,080
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnglaisInHull
Lessons learned:
- I consistently underestimate the effect of wind in conditions like this.
- When in trouble in tight quarters, going back where you came from is often an easy and effective option.
- Stopping and thinking (in my case out loud helps) for a few more minutes before acting can save trouble later.
- When you screw up there will be an audience.
The good news: the only damage done was to my ego.
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Well said. We've all been there, especially lesson #4!
I did once use your first three lessons to mitigate the last. Weekend afternoon in summer, backing in to a tight slip in the middle of a labyrinth of narrow fairways in a stiff breeze. The whole marina had turned out to watch the inevitable crash. I exercised lesson #2 three times before nailing a perfect landing on the fourth try. I actually heard cheering from the crowd.
We won't talk about all the times things didn't go that well
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24-10-2017, 05:05
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Boat: Leopard 39
Posts: 860
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
Think of "losing the bow" as a maneuver, a goal, rather than a casualty. Do what it takes to lose the bow in a favorable direction, and the vessel will be of a like mind to yours. Use the FORCE, Luke! :-)
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24-10-2017, 05:33
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Schionning Waterline 1480
Posts: 1,987
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
We tried to leave with 20knt on the beam pushing us on the dock. With a spring line 2/3rds the way up the dock, full reverse only pulled the nose slightly of the dock. Soon as I ran it forward it just went straight back on.
Suggestion by the Schionning group a big ball fender and winch the rear quarter back while on the spring line then gun it, I think that will work for me.
__________________
Regards
Dave
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24-10-2017, 05:37
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Thhe boat is in Titusville, FL and we're back in CO for a few months resupplying the cruising kitty and raising money for our childrens dental charity www.sailing4smiles.com
Boat: 1982 Cape Dory 36 Hull #78
Posts: 656
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
I would like to know more about using lines to leave the dock. I'm in the last slip, out there all by my lonesome, and the wind constantly blows 10-15kts from 11 o'clock pushing me into the dock. With a full keel, the boat backs up where ever it feels like and there's little control over which direction it goes. The boat is 36' and classified "ultra-heavy" so although she's not huge, she's can be a handful for us.
Leaving and returning are huge stress times.
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24-10-2017, 05:58
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bumping around the Caribbean
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,625
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
Spring lines are great and everyone should know how to use them as a lever or capture line to a piling or cleat. Another art is to use a piling itself as a pivot for the boat. For example, if I'm approaching a dock where the wind is likely to be pinning me against it when I want to cast off, and it's available, I'll tie up all the way at one end or the other. Then when casting off a line around the end piling, to the appropriate cleat on the boat allows me t pivot on the piling. Fortunately I have robust rub rails but the same can be accomplished with a good fender. If at the back end of the dock, you reverse with the line tight, forcing the boat to pivot around the piling, bringing the bow into the wind. If at the front, pivot until the stern is out then back out. Variations on the technique can be used in various other circumstances.
In short, everyone is afraid of hitting pilings, but sometimes they are the very thing you need to maneuver the boat in a controlled fashion.
To Anglais' point about just reversing course and trying again, it's always a good idea to evaluate the situation and determine what the specific "point of no return" is. That is, at what point are you committed with no option to abandon the maneuver and start over. Knowing that point in any circumstance, and being able to evaluate whether it's going to work or not helps make difficult situations less stressful.
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24-10-2017, 06:15
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#10
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Cruising the northern Bahamas until June
Boat: Leopard 40 2009
Posts: 587
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
I love these discussions on docking because it reminds us that everyone is (or should be) nervous trying to maneuver a single-screw sailboat in tight quarters. In addition to the good advice above (particularly about spring lines), I'd like to add a couple points: (1) On spade keels, the bow always falls off first, so steer the bow upwind (an advantage that @SSgtPitt has that I don't). (2) There is no shame in abandoning the maneuver and trying again from a different angle.
__________________
John Trusty
Better to trust the man who is frequently in error than the one who is never in doubt." -- Eric Sevareid
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24-10-2017, 06:53
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Boat: J/88
Posts: 789
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielamartindm
Think of "losing the bow" as a maneuver, a goal, rather than a casualty. Do what it takes to lose the bow in a favorable direction, and the vessel will be of a like mind to yours. Use the FORCE, Luke! :-)
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I have a similar situation only I am almost at the closed end of the fairway. Using the concept above, when the wind is from the open end of the fairway I pull out as far as I can trying to turn the stern up wind (against my propwalk) but then get patient and stay in the middle of the fairway as I let the bow blow down wind till I can really back her out. Last trip out was like this with 20 knots preventing any easy turn as I came out with the forces working against each other so I waited and used prop wash to work the stern up into the wind as gently as I could till the bow got down far enough to back out the fairway and turn around when out in the open.
__________________
Never attribute to malice what can be explained away by stupidity.
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24-10-2017, 08:20
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#12
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Pompano Beach, FL
Boat: Kaufman 47, Cutter
Posts: 363
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
With our Kaufman 47 cutter rig, we are dealing with 30K displacement and a V-drive (prop walk to starboard in reverse), docked to starboard just around the corner of the canal. When the sports fisherman is not at the dock across from us, I typically can spring aft to get the bow off the dock, then using only transmission with the engine at idle, spin the boat 180 degrees using prop walk with the rudder to port. Unfortunately, that is not what I end up doing most of the time. Generally, we leave the forward starboard spring on, and with the engine in forward, the stern "kicks" out from the dock. Then with the rudder hard to port, I use lots of power in reverse to get the boat moving aft to get some steerage. Once I am making 1-2 kts, I idle down and go in neutral, which allows the rudder to do its work to turn the boat to port. When the wind is out or the east (across the port beam) coordinating the bow work with the helm can get a bit dicey, but so far I have been able to clear the boats aft of Imagine.
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24-10-2017, 08:22
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nova Scotia until Spring 2021
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,976
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
It's called "warping off" and it allows you to move the pivot points against which the engine works to favourable angles in situations when low or no speed makes the rudder useless. The videos made by Duncan Wells are very instructive. This is a favourite:
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24-10-2017, 10:04
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 110
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
I have to relate this story. A big ship Captain friend was faced with making a downwind landing in a 40" sailboat in extremely heavy wind. The whole marina was watching because three other boats had crash-landed on the same float. He gave me instructions to drop the anchor and to pay out the rode as we made our down-wind approach. With awed respect, I followed his instructions. As we headed directly down on the float at a breakneck speed, he gave me the signal to secure the anchor line at the last minute. To this day, I'm still amazed. The boat abruptly pivoted on a dime with the stern 3' from the float. I calmly stepped off saying to the dismayed spectators, with a strait face, "You should see him (half truth) do this with tanker ships". I deeply respect professional skippers because they have to weigh many "ifs" in doing their jobs. As an aside, the same man worked for Lloyd's of London and once directed a fleet of clients where to anchor their ships for an approaching typhoon.
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24-10-2017, 11:12
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: President 43 Sportfish
Posts: 4,105
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Re: Leaving Dock in a Breeze - How to Attract Attention
Most of the times that skippers get into trouble, with too much wind for their docking maneuvers, they really could have simply picked a better time to do it, either leaving before the wind picked up, or waiting until it subsides. Also skippers often get into trouble by stubbornly sticking to a plan when they could, for example, simply let the wind take the bow wherever it wishes while otherwise maneuvering the stern so the boat stays out of trouble. If the wind won't let you do the maneuver you were trying for, go to plan B which the wind is helping you to accomplish.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
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