Pearson 26 extreme heel in a gust

[Tayana42]

Nice photo, Suijin, showing a yankee sail. captn_rob, when and how much to reef or furl which sails on your boat will depend on wind, sea state and point of sail. It starts out seeming complicated but with experience it will become almost second nature. But it is still a good idea to have a plan or strategy for what wind speeds trigger what actions. Anyway, it will vary from boat to boat and to the comfort level of the skipper and passengers. I often reef earlier or carry less sail if I have inexperienced people on board or if my wife wants to serve a meal underway.

The most important lesson from this is that every skipper must practice reefing and be comfortable enough with shortening sail to do it as a matter of course as conditions warrant. Reef early and reef often. Take in that reef and shake it out again as needed.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Suijin

For illustration. A sistership of mine:
Attachment 175979

I find that I don’t fully furl the yankee until I’m in the second reef, but every boat is going to be different.

To me, that does not look like a yankee but just a typical cruising genoa. A proper yankee's clew would be several feet higher than that of the sail shown and likely have less overlap. See attached photo (sorry 'bout the small size - I dunno how to make it bigger).



Back in the early IOR days, some race boats deployed a double head rig employing a staysail and a 'jib topsail" which was a sort of genoa with a lot of draft and a somewhat higher clew than a racing (decksweeping) genoa. This was in the days before good reaching kites were available, and gave good boatspeed close reaching, and that's what your setup looks like to me.

Jim

[Don C L]

Not to be too nit picky but I think technically neither photo is a yankee unless it is a true cutter rig. That would depend on the mast location relative to waterline and size of foretriangle relative to main size. I could be wrong. It happened once. Years ago.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Not to be too nit picky but I think technically neither photo is a yankee unless it is a true cutter rig. That would depend on the mast location relative to waterline and size of foretriangle relative to main size. I could be wrong. It happened once. Years ago.

Well, Don, I thought that the term "Yankee" referred to the cut of the sail, not the boat on which it was hoisted. Sounds like you think moving the sail from one boat to another could change its name. If so, what would you call such a high clewed no overlap head sail on a sloop with an inner stay and a staysail?

Jim

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Not to be too nit picky but I think technically neither photo is a yankee unless it is a true cutter rig. That would depend on the mast location relative to waterline and size of foretriangle relative to main size. I could be wrong. It happened once. Years ago.

on edit:
OK since I stuck my foot in it and caused the thread drift a bit, I decided I better do some research. I am glad to see that some brain cells are still working and my memory is fair. It seems many or most folks are referring to a yankee as any really high cut headsail or jib on any rig (sloop or cutter.) But at least according to this Hood Sails site, the yankee is the high cut headsail on a cutter rig, although I did not see anywhere how they defined cutter rig.
By the way this is a great site for all those wanting sail info or needing to get refreshed, as I do
Joe Cooper | HOOD Sailmakers

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, Don, I thought that the term "Yankee" referred to the cut of the sail, not the boat on which it was hoisted. Sounds like you think moving the sail from one boat to another could change its name. If so, what would you call such a high clewed no overlap head sail on a sloop with an inner stay and a staysail?

Jim

OK, I MAY be wrong but I believe that is a jib topsail... or just jib...
aghh, now I gotta go back to research...
Maybe it's just that I have never seen such a high cut jib (yankee) on a sloop before...
perhaps you are correct, it's the cut and not the rig, that determines the name...

[john61ct]

Have not read the full thread.

In my search for a boat that fits my needs, the Pearson 26 was eliminated due to many reports of exactly these kinds of handling issues.

Not dangerous as in sinking, but not safe to sail near other boats in unpredictable winds.

Googling will give several such threads.

[captn_rob]

So got back last night from a two day cruise to Boothbay Harbor, Maine. Left from the New Meadows river near Cundy’s Harbor Saturday morning in very light winds. My nephew was along as well in his Canadian Sailcraft 22’. One thing we noticed right off the bat is that my Pearson 26 performs beautifully in light air. I was literally sailing circles around him. It was even more apparent on day 2. We left our anchorage near Boothbay at about 9:30 AM with 5 knot winds from the south. I was making 3 – 4 knots of speed – could have done better but I purposely had the sails set trying to go slower so as not to get too far ahead. My nephew’s CS 22 was barely doing 2.5 kts. I have to admit, I was not happy to have to hold back but we were sailing together (it WAS kind of satisfying to be out performing my sailing teacher, LOL). Later in the day the wind picked up to 15 to 20 knots from SSW with higher gusts (we were trying to head SW!) and the seas built to 4 – 6 ft. I put a reef in and furled my genoa back. The CS22 really shined in the heavy weather and quickly outpaced me. I probably could have done better but since this was my first time sailing in those conditions I was being very conservative. Once we turned toward the NW with following seas my P26 was barely controllable – BAD weather helm and once almost broached! I had to keep 2 hands on the tiller just to keep control and try to anticipate our movements so I could apply rudder ahead. My experience with commercial fishing definitely helped here! There is a little play in the rudder so I think that contributed to the weather helm (Is there anything I can do about that short of replacing the rudder?).

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

So got back last night from a two day cruise to Boothbay Harbor, Maine. Left from the New Meadows river near Cundy’s Harbor Saturday morning in very light winds. My nephew was along as well in his Canadian Sailcraft 22’. One thing we noticed right off the bat is that my Pearson 26 performs beautifully in light air. I was literally sailing circles around him. It was even more apparent on day 2. We left our anchorage near Boothbay at about 9:30 AM with 5 knot winds from the south. I was making 3 – 4 knots of speed – could have done better but I purposely had the sails set trying to go slower so as not to get too far ahead. My nephew’s CS 22 was barely doing 2.5 kts. I have to admit, I was not happy to have to hold back but we were sailing together (it WAS kind of satisfying to be out performing my sailing teacher, LOL). Later in the day the wind picked up to 15 to 20 knots from SSW with higher gusts (we were trying to head SW!) and the seas built to 4 – 6 ft. I put a reef in and furled my genoa back. The CS22 really shined in the heavy weather and quickly outpaced me. I probably could have done better but since this was my first time sailing in those conditions I was being very conservative. Once we turned toward the NW with following seas my P26 was barely controllable – BAD weather helm and once almost broached! I had to keep 2 hands on the tiller just to keep control and try to anticipate our movements so I could apply rudder ahead. My experience with commercial fishing definitely helped here! There is a little play in the rudder so I think that contributed to the weather helm (Is there anything I can do about that short of replacing the rudder?).

If you had bad weather helm going to the NW, you probably should have unfurled the jib/genoa a bit

Also, with your displacement and waterline, it appears you should have pretty much left the CS22 way behind after the wind and waves increased same as you did in light air. Pearson 26 PHRF: 210; CS 22 PHRF: 249. http://solovalcour.com/doc/PHRF.pdf

But it isn't easy at first trying to figure all that out in heavier conditions when you are just starting out

[Howler]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

I got out of lobstering nearly 20 years ago I'm afraid...

A little off topic, but the committee boat at our club (Rochester Yacht Club) is a converted lobster boat from Maine. Photo attached.

[captn_rob]

Originally Posted by thomm225

If you had bad weather helm going to the NW, you probably should have unfurled the jib/genoa a bit

Also, with your displacement and waterline, it appears you should have pretty much left the CS22 way behind after the wind and waves increased same as you did in light air. Pearson 26 PHRF: 210; CS 22 PHRF: 249. http://solovalcour.com/doc/PHRF.pdf

But it isn't easy at first trying to figure all that out in heavier conditions when you are just starting out

I did unfurl. That's what I was doing when we broached. My 21 year old son was at the helm and didn't have the experience to handle it but he did follow my instructions and was able to get us out of it. Scared the crap outta me being up at the mast during that.

As previously noted I was sailing very conservatively. A more experienced sailor could definitely have had her performing nicely. I was definitely impressed by the way the CS22 handled the heavy weather though.

[doug1957]

Is there play in the rudder or the tiller? The former could be a problem. That can be checked when it's on the hard for the winter.

Yesterday was a bit challenging. You'll learn with time how to set your sails for various conditions as you experience them. We started off yesterday with a reef in the main as the wind was predicted to come up as the day went on, then used the 150 genoa to generate power while the wind was lighter. Not the fastest way to go, but it made things easier later on. It's always good to look at the wind predictions the morning of your sail and use apps with different models. If the predictions start to converge, then that's a good indication that it's likely to happen and you can anticipate accordingly. According to some local meteorologists I've talked with, the European model is a bit better for wind predictions.

If you had following seas while going to the NW, that can exacerbate the control issues a bit.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

Later in the day the wind picked up to 15 to 20 knots from SSW with higher gusts (we were trying to head SW!) and the seas built to 4 – 6 ft. I put a reef in and furled my genoa back. The CS22 really shined in the heavy weather and quickly outpaced me. I probably could have done better but since this was my first time sailing in those conditions I was being very conservative. Once we turned toward the NW with following seas my P26 was barely controllable – BAD weather helm [...]

You've got to figure out what sail combinations give you a balanced helm, then use only those sail combinations. With roller reefing, some people mark the jib in some way so they can get repeatable results. It is best to figure some of this out in benign conditions although angle of heel plays a role so there will be some tweaking with experience.


PEARSON 26 WEEKENDER sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


The Pearson 26 has a masthead rig with the mast set fairly far back, leading to an unusually large foretriangle. This makes it particularly important to carry enough foresail to maintain control.



How many reef points do you have on the main? Typically there would only be one, moderately deep reef. If you have two, and only the first reef is rigged, you might want to consider rigging the deeper reef (either instead or in addition to the first).


You may also find that your boat sails acceptably on (partially furled) jib alone, especially on a run.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by captn_rob

I did unfurl. That's what I was doing when we broached. My 21 year old son was at the helm and didn't have the experience to handle it but he did follow my instructions and was able to get us out of it. Scared the crap outta me being up at the mast during that.

As previously noted I was sailing very conservatively. A more experienced sailor could definitely have had her performing nicely. I was definitely impressed by the way the CS22 handled the heavy weather though.

I leave all sail up in conditions like that here at times if I have a long way to go and just work (the tiller) Here lots of times it's a NE wind coming off the Atlantic and I'm headed S or slightly SW

The boat will definitely try to head up though with all that main up, but this way I don't get any waves breaking over the stern due to the speed those sails are generating. If I wanted to relax, I'd just lower the main and sail jib only maybe. (My main only have one set of reef points) or put in the one reef in the main and see if the autopilot could keep up so I could read

But then again my boat is a little heavier than yours with a bit less of a sail area/disp ratio

[captn_rob]

Originally Posted by doug1957

Is there play in the rudder or the tiller? The former could be a problem. That can be checked when it's on the hard for the winter.

Definitely rudder. I tightened the tiller handle to eliminate any play there. I also put a few drops of oil on the bushings as they were squeaking a lot and I was trying to sleep Saturday night..

Originally Posted by doug1957

Yesterday was a bit challenging. You'll learn with time how to set your sails for various conditions as you experience them. We started off yesterday with a reef in the main as the wind was predicted to come up as the day went on, then used the 150 genoa to generate power while the wind was lighter. Not the fastest way to go, but it made things easier later on. It's always good to look at the wind predictions the morning of your sail and use apps with different models. If the predictions start to converge, then that's a good indication that it's likely to happen and you can anticipate accordingly. According to some local meteorologists I've talked with, the European model is a bit better for wind predictions.

I ALWAYS check the forecasts both before and during. Using both my phone apps and the NOAA weather radio. As sometimes happens, the forecasts were off. Original forecast was for 10 - 15 knot winds from the southeast (which would have been perfect for us). Actual was SW 15 - 20 with higher gusts. I put the reef in as soon as I saw that conditions were going to worsen.

Originally Posted by doug1957

If you had following seas while going to the NW, that can exacerbate the control issues a bit.

Yeah. I was wishing I had a wheel instead of a tiller. This is my first boat with a tiller that wasn't on an outboard.