Colin Archer Ketch

[maijipo]

Good afternoon.

We sold our Tartan 33 in Florida and we are now installed in WA state. We were originally thinking to buy another 33 for week-end sailing and then a 40 ft in a few years to sail full time. However, I found that the price of the 30 ft in the area are more expensive than in FL and hard to find under 25 or 30K (we bought our Tartan for 10K &#128522

So, we are thinking to maybe directly go for a 40 ft. Our weekend and vacation program are easy with sail in the San Juan Island, sunshine coast, Desolation sound etc. (where we spent 2 weeks sailing a few years back). When we can retire our program is going down to the Sea of Cortez and then head to the Caribbean and finally the Med (all this is a few years obviously). We are therefore looking for a Category A sailboat able to make offshore passage.

In my research I found the following sailboat: https://sailnorthwest.com/boat/colin...year=1968+2020

She looks extremely comfortable (and yes that is also a factor – not 20 anymore and my wife want a bed!) and seaworthy. She seems also in very good condition and the price is good for a 40 ft. I know it is due to the fact that the boat has a ferrocement hull and these boats are usually much cheaper. I have been reading a few articles in the last few days and it seems the community is a bit divided. I understand the fact that the risk is corrosion inside the cement almost impossible to detect.

I am wondering if anybody has feedback concerning the Colin Archer Ketch 40 and ferrocement hull in general.

Thx you.
Chris

[rbk]

Looks very well maintained and might be a steal if the hull checks out. Spend the money and have it hauled go from there.

[Bill O]

If you want to read about ferro-cemment boats this is a good book

[Paul L]

Ferro boats are very difficult to sell. So keep that in mind if you buy this one, it will someday be your problem to sell it. The hull is ferro, the engine has over 5,000hrs, the electronics are not new. If you want it, then make a low offer.


As for sailing around the Puget Sound for a few years. Most of the sailing there is light wind or motoring, so a pervormance hull tends to get you sailing a lot more.

[Fore and Aft]

I was thinking the same thing Paul L. It's what one of my clients calls throw away money. Be prepared to have to give the boat away once you have finished your adventure. Worst case scenario if she starts bleeding rust during your ownership be prepared to have to pay to have her scrapped.
I have seen plenty of Ferro yachts crushed with a digger and then put into a bin. The valuable bits are sold of, but I doubt that covers the disposal costs. My mast came from a Ferro yacht that was being crushed on the day I was in the yard doing a survey. The guy doing the crushing sold me the mast for scrap value which was $150.
Cheers

[Jim Cate]

Another opinion that she would be a poor light air sailor. The joinery appears to be quite nicely done, and in a traditional way... rather attractive if you like that sort of layout. The finish appears good throughout. Teak decks are a negative, especially if you are heading towards the tropics. Standing rigging is at end of life, didn't notice an age on running rigging so likely in need of replacement. Sails are needing replacement, and likely the electronics. The house battery is apparently only two golf cart SLAs, and that is scant by most standards. No mention of what sort of autopilot is fitted, and the windvane is of an unknown (to me) marque... might be perfect for the boat, might not.

All in all, looks like a LOT of money to bring her back to cruise ready, despite the general good appearance. And exactly why do they persist in calling her a 40 footer when she is only 39"0"" LOD? And finally, you will be paying for a damn big berth with all the appendages.

Colin Archer designs cause lots of folks to salivate. For me the narrow beam aft means less useful volume than transom sterned boats of similar length, it is awkward to mount much in the way of solar panels, and the dismal sail area to displacement and length to displacement figures are, as mentioned above, harbingers of sluggish light air performance. When you add in the difficulties of surveying the ferro hull and the difficulties of reselling, I'd give her a miss. YMMV!

Jim

[Steve Bean]

I have a 32-foot ferrocement boat since 1985, and a number of books. The best and newest is Colin Brookes' "Ferro-cement Boats." 2008. Covers history, design, buying, surveying, building, repair, maintenance, ferro sheathing. Ferroboats.com Hartley-boats.com
ISBN 0 9521067 3 6

[Michael Cobbe]

the engine has over 5,000hrs,



THat is cocern marine engines snd generators have a design life of 5.000 hours.

[mvweebles]

Ferro is rare in North America. If you're interested, you may want to check on insurance to ensure no issues with coverage.

Nice looking boat. I'm a bit surprised at the $45k price point given ferro hull. Sailboats are a buyers market to begin with. Ferro in North America narrows pool substantially.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Michael Cobbe

the engine has over 5,000hrs,



THat is cocern marine engines snd generators have a design life of 5.000 hours.

Depends on how it was cared for. Many, many Diesels will easily crest 10k hours between rebuilds, though I admit few Sailors see that type of service life. Engine installation is often cramped and not conducive to regular and attentive service. That said, to Ann's point, 5000 hours might be indicative of how the boat moves under sail.

[DDabs]

a cement boat built in Switzerland, the irony of a capable ocean cruiser is lost somewhere in there lol

[carlosproa]

Looks nice, I am sure you already has done tons of research on hull integrity and consequences of salt water ingress into the metal frame (aka a slow motion explosion or cracking of the hull). For where you are going to sail it, it might be the right boat. I wonder if you can get away to convince the marina to charge you as a 39 ft boat and not measure that long bowsprit. If the standing rig is good and sails are decent, why not? If they are not then I would ask $10K off to cushion the costs you will have.

[maijipo]

Good morning guys. Thx for all the replies. Honestly, your comments are reflecting my own concerns. I would never have thought about a Ferro cement boat if it wasn't for this one. I could certainly ask for less, however, that would certainly not change the boat herself. The old engine doesn't really worry me too much. With my budget between 50-70K, I obviously have to look for boats from the 80/90 and the engine is often relatively old. However, the engine can be replaced and repowered. It is really the characteristic of the boat themselves that worry me more and there are no fixes around that. We will keep looking over the next month for sailboats having a good balance of security, comfort and cost. So far I have in my list the Tartan 37, the Hans Christian 38, Wauquiez, Tayana, Cheoy Lee...I am not discarding at the moment Beneteau (not entering into the debate blue water versus production). A few weeks back I saw this one: https://bellingham.craigslist.org/bo...094861852.html. But unfortunately, a lot of work to restore her...

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Depends on how it was cared for. Many, many Diesels will easily crest 10k hours between rebuilds, though I admit few Sailors see that type of service life. Engine installation is often cramped and not conducive to regular and attentive service. That said, to Ann's point, 5000 hours might be indicative of how the boat moves under sail.

I would be less concerned about the engine than other aspects of the boat -m 5000 hours is not that many for a boat that has done 80,000 nm in 20+ years. I think Ford Lehman engines are quite old-fashioned and rugged.

The boat might be just fine for passage making but I would not want to have to handle it in a typical marina space with the bowsprit and long keel. I don't know any marinas that would charge you for a 39 footer. This boat will need a very long well. I certainly would be concerned about resale and insurance. Also you are going to need to spend a pretty sum on sails, electronics, and miscellaneous bits.

[Bill O]

Chris,
Someone we know built a ferro version of our boat (~1980) in the Seattle area and will say it was well done. Its still around and in very good shape.

If the interior work is any indication how well the hull was built, then it will most likely out last you.
Will say it is probably true, ferro boats in the US have a stigma associated w/them and are of low value here. If you are looking to head out that boat will most likely take you anywhere.
Usually I look at engine hours to access how well a boat design sails overall. For this particular boat I'm not sure what are the real engine hrs. In the pics the eng. hr. meter shows only 3,217.3 hrs while the write up says 5,268 hrs, so which is correct? If its only ~3k hrs., maybe it sails ok. It won't be a race boat but then again nor will it feel like a wash machine down below either.
That Ford Lehman motor is a good one and will last a long time.
Don't see that much wrong w/the boat and if the interior works for you, it may be worth a look.