Jeanneau vs Amel

[outbound_308]

well thats what I like abt it. How would it leak? Deck is glassed on, Mast is deck stepped etc. Isn't there only one water intake sea cock as well? Not a lot of places for water to come in from.

[boom23]

Originally Posted by outbound_308

well thats what I like abt it. How would it leak? Deck is glassed on, Mast is deck stepped etc. Isn't there only one water intake sea cock as well? Not a lot of places for water to come in from.

My Amel 50 has a dry bilge. All dirty water goes into the grey tank and then it's pumped overboard. If there's water in the bilge, there's a problem somewhere.

Lots of storage under the floor boards...

I'm not saying that Amel boats are the "best", as that's a relative term. "Best" is whatever works for you. Enjoy what you have. That's important.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by billknny

We have actually had someone call us "liars" to our face when we told them that our 25 year old Amel doesn't leak--ever. He owned a Jeanneau, and just the idea that an older, well maintained boat could actually, really, and truly, be 100% watertight seemed impossible to him. Kind of tells me everything I need to know about his boat...

I guess a proper hull deck joint is only "an advantage" if you want to keep ALL of the ocean on the outside of your boat--all the time.

Your hull to deck joint is certainly unlikely to ever leak but hatches, deck hardware etc. can certainly leak so your deck surfaces and windows/ports will all have to be well maintained in order to really be a leak proof boat.

[outbound_308]

as with all boats, I was just referring to things I thought were better and maybe a better idea. I wonder abt stuff going from the sink or showers into the central bilge though. Could that be diverted to a sump box maybe?

[SofiaB]

Amel versus Jeanneau? How do you answer that question? It's like asking what is the best way to get to Italy, Delta Airlines, or Holland America.

I have owned a Jeannea and it was a great boat. I've very diligently inspected the new Amels. There is no comparison.

If you like simple and understand the limitations, you may love the Jeanneau. If you like complex, redundant and push buttons, you will love the Amel. There are major differences, too many to list, but it's pretty simple, based on your finances. Not only the purchase price difference, but the maintenance costs. I heard an owner describe maintenance costs annually for the Amel which would replace the Jeanneau in 4 years. I personally like simple. I'd prefer to have spares on board to fix the single mechanism, then pay for two of the same thing, and the maintenance cost to maintain two of the same thing. Plus, I'm not that good of a maintenance engineer to diagnose and repair the types of systems on the Amel. I seriously respect those who can, however.

[bluesphere]

I'm sorry but simple vrs complicated? Any one boat can be more "complicated" than another depending on how you rig, or the systems you install aboard. The question here is about design and construction. An Amel is one of the best built boats ever made, and a Jeanneau one of the cheapest constructions. I've been sailing just under 30 years and have over 55k miles under my keel. I have delivered many boats and sailed Jeanneaues and Amels , its a silly, no brainier comparison, but "simple vrs complicated" doesn't make much sense mate.

Originally Posted by SofiaB

Amel versus Jeanneau? How do you answer that question? It's like asking what is the best way to get to Italy, Delta Airlines, or Holland America.

I have owned a Jeannea and it was a great boat. I've very diligently inspected the new Amels. There is no comparison.

If you like simple and understand the limitations, you may love the Jeanneau. If you like complex, redundant and push buttons, you will love the Amel. There are major differences, too many to list, but it's pretty simple, based on your finances. Not only the purchase price difference, but the maintenance costs. I heard an owner describe maintenance costs annually for the Amel which would replace the Jeanneau in 4 years. I personally like simple. I'd prefer to have spares on board to fix the single mechanism, then pay for two of the same thing, and the maintenance cost to maintain two of the same thing. Plus, I'm not that good of a maintenance engineer to diagnose and repair the types of systems on the Amel. I seriously respect those who can, however.

[malbert73]

Yes, this is a circular discussion. These days with the internet and price transparency generally you really just get what you pay for. So quality of construction and quality of systems installations generally is directly proportional to price. I think the days of high price just relating to fanciness or label are gone given how easy it is for consumers to compare.

So if you are new or used boat shopping, you go with your budget and see what’s in that range. You can get a bigger cheaper boat, or a smaller better quality boat. Or on the used market an older better quality boat is often same price as a newer cheaper quality boat. And it’s not a terrible thing, many people don’t need more than the cheaper quality boat. But it’s not the same product.

Here on the Chesapeake Bay, for people who plan to stay local it would be silly to spend the money on an Amel. Hence there are tons of cheaper production boats. And of course you could outfit them to go further. But if you really want to be blue water sailing full time then you will be happier with a different boat probably.

I have chartered beneteaus, Jeanneau, and Bavaria- all very nice and new boats- and there is no comparison In terms of fit, finish, storage capacity, and overall build quality compared to my vintage tartan. But, I am very hands-on and proactive in systems upgrades and refit on my tartan- which I like and many don’t. if you buy new you can defer this for about 10 years.

[Sailor279]

SofiaB - you raise a good point re: maintenance. That's one aspect that seems to not get a lot of attention but could make a serious difference if the $ is even close to the ratio you describe. As a future cruising boat owner, I'm going to research this more carefully!

[De.windhoos]

Originally Posted by Sailor279

SofiaB - you raise a good point re: maintenance. That's one aspect that seems to not get a lot of attention but could make a serious difference if the $ is even close to the ratio you describe. As a future cruising boat owner, I'm going to research this more carefully!

It's very simple, over the lifetime of a boat you roughly spend 10% of the new value per year on maintenance. So if you buy a 1 mil boat, that equals to 100K/Yr.
However, with better build boats with redundancy and oversized gear you won't incur those cost at the beginning of the boats lifecycle, but later on. But then the cost will be higher.

Also, all new 45+ ft boats are very complex systems.
Part of the attractiveness of brands like Amel is that, although very complex, they are designed that you can access all systems fairly easily and therefore maintenance, troubleshooting and fixing becomes less difficult than boats from other brands that are not designed for long-term, long-distance cruising.

Whatever boat you end up buying, if it's a bigger boat, you either need to acquire a lot of technical skills or accept the fact that you will fork over a lot of money and hope that stuff gets fixed properly.....

[Mag3]

Originally Posted by De.windhoos

It's very simple, over the lifetime of a boat you roughly spend 10% of the new value per year on maintenance. So if you buy a 1 mil boat, that equals to 100K/Yr.

Whatever boat you end up buying, if it's a bigger boat, you either need to acquire a lot of technical skills or accept the fact that you will fork over a lot of money and hope that stuff gets fixed properly.....

just curious... I currently own a 1980 passport 42 that i've spent a kings ransom on completely bringing back so it's not a good barometer..

but i've ordered a new Amel 50 and i'm building out my financial model for me to take off for many years and trying to figure out what to plan for...

i'll be doing this with my best friend - he and I are right and left hands and have a very high degree of technical and craft skills... for those who truly do all their own work, what is the % i should be counting on assuming that the 10% is simply writing a check to someone else to do the work as opposed to just materials/parts costs?

any hive mind wisdom on this would be greatly appreciated..

Cheers,
-Justin

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Mag3

just curious... I currently own a 1980 passport 42 that i've spent a kings ransom on completely bringing back so it's not a good barometer..

but i've ordered a new Amel 50 and i'm building out my financial model for me to take off for many years and trying to figure out what to plan for...

i'll be doing this with my best friend - he and I are right and left hands and have a very high degree of technical and craft skills... for those who truly do all their own work, what is the % i should be counting on assuming that the 10% is simply writing a check to someone else to do the work as opposed to just materials/parts costs?

any hive mind wisdom on this would be greatly appreciated..

Cheers,
-Justin

Justin, the 10% of new cost is a number way, way, way out in left field. A boat that costs $500,000 today new does not cost $50,000 a year in maintenance. That's just goofy.

Really. HALF that. At most, and that is a long term average over the life of the boat, and that INCLUDES operating costs.

People come up with all kinds of stupid rules, and very few of them make any sense. My previous 40 foot ketch was built in 1976 at a cost of $50,000. Could you maintain it today for $5,000 a year? NO!

Other people quote a rule that says 10% of what you paid for the boat. Again... stupid. The current value of an older boat has nothing to do with what it costs to maintain it.

The only basis that makes ANY sense is a percentage of what the boat would cost if it was NEW TODAY. That is admittedly a squishy number for an older boat, but it's the only one that makes sense.

How do I know? Because I maintained a fleet of 50 boats from 25 to 50 feet for years, and tracked expenses as part of my job.

Right now I own an Amel 53, and keep her in top notch condition, and we spend about $20k to $40K in maintenance for a boat that is cruising 10,000 miles a year without a home port. Considering that a Amel 53 would probably base price right now around $800k, that goes along with MY rule of 3% to 5% of CURRENT value IF NEW.

You will LOVE your new Amel 50, and with an Amel if you spend what it takes to take care of the boat, and do the preventative maintenance, it will be a long time before you start getting surprise repair bills.

[Mag3]

SUPER helpful... I've honestly found that 10% number that gets quoted everyone crazy so the boat is 1.2 M... so i'm spending a 120k a year in maintenance? that seems nuts.

I've been building a pretty crazily detailed spreadsheet (i was the lead designer for excel for 6 years so i can't help it!) to ensure i'm being as planful as possible (obviously anything can happen). I've spent some countless hours scouring the interwebs to tidbits and cost insights.

I've gone so far as to include the materials cost for all the scheduled maintenance items I can think of and i"m coming in at about 12k a year doing all the work myself, but also doing all of it on schedule and treating her with love

your 20 to 40 (for a same brand and similar complexity boat that's older)... is that you doing all the work yourself?

btw i'm also assuming every 5th year is a "bigger" year with a heavier cost basis... i'm modeling a 10 year window (trying to factor in regional costs differences for insurance, food, fuel etc.).

Cheers,
-Justin

[letsgetsailing3]

I mean, if 10% maintenance were the real number, then just buy a new boat every ten years and don't do any maintenance.


I'd think you'd come out ahead.

[Mag3]

haha! true that.

[Eder]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Do the jams happen because they have just put 10K on the rig? Who knows.

Sorry for quoting an old post but furling jams have little to do with the mast an everything to do with tired sails...something that happens often on Amels as they seem to be everywhere I've been around the Pacific.


(I don't have an Amel but I jammed mine near the equator with 14k nm's on it...bad idea)