Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-12-2016, 01:37   #1
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Hey guys. Yep, it's time for my inner luddite's 'coming out'. Meaning that much to my chagrin, I'm confessing my paucity of spreadsheet creation & use knowledge. Which, I'm fairly aware of how valuable they can be for creating & tracking inventories, or for doing cost comparisons of big, complex projects. Such as boat buying for example.
Thus I'd appreciate it BIG if you guys could steer me to some Spreadsheet for Dummies tutorials. Especially ones which start schooling you from about the point at which screen #1 pops up on your computer monitor.

In particular I want to be able to get smooth enough with them so that I can create one for comparing the cost/value of boat X with her as is equipment list, to boat Y with hers, when shopping for a cruiser ultimately kitted out to "level Z" with systems & gear.

Especially as such a thing would be useful to show/give to folks who are asking the perpetual question of "which boat should I buy". Where upon I usually tell them that a boat's gear can easily cost as much or more than the boat is worth/her initial purchase price. So they need to compare apples to apples, by doing a total vessel/gear price comparo (via a spreadsheet).

Thanks. And if anyone wants to create a spreadsheet like mentioned above (& in lots of my other posts), I'd surely love it!

Gratzi
__________________

__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 01:49   #2
Registered User
 
gamayun's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Oakland, CA
Boat: Freedom 38
Posts: 2,157
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

For comparing complex projects, look into a SQL database. Excel (as just a spreadsheet) has always been too limiting. I'm no good at creating them, but there are lots of people who can. Then, you can compare all the variables you want in multitudes of ways....
__________________

gamayun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 08:07   #3
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Diego CA
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 2,194
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

You can start with some lists. Prioritize what you want or like and dont want or like.

Do some research on yachtworld. Maybe even charter or join a yachtclub.

There are plenty of spreadsheet tutorials. Youtube and Linda.com will get you started.
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 08:31   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 18,335
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Databases are fine but I would start at xls to get the general idea of data layouts, and general workflow when entering and manipulating data.

Spreadsheet work is very easy and I think what you want is just google up some xls for nulls on Monday, proceed to googling xls fro beginners no Tuesday. You should be better than 99% of the population by Friday.

Expect maybe 10 hours to get from null to beginner. Most people stay at beginner for ever. I do.

This may help:

Ann's Blog | The Absolute Beginner’s Guide to Spreadsheets

This workflow contains most common day techniques and terminology for budgets and such like numerical tasks:

create a simple budget using excel

Take care. Excel work is easy and fun. Enjoy.

+big HUG
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:17   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 18,335
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Thanks all. I'll get to work self/home schooling on this. And may even hire a 12yr old to tutor me in a few days
Avoid teenage boys. They all want to get paid in cold sixpacks. Find a girl, these seem quite happy with the newest iPhone.

Christmas Bloody Christmas ... ;-)

Have fun learning!
b.
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:21   #6
Registered User
 
AnglaisInHull's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Sailing Lake Ontario
Boat: Mirage 35
Posts: 786
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
For comparing complex projects, look into a SQL database. Excel (as just a spreadsheet) has always been too limiting. I'm no good at creating them, but there are lots of people who can. Then, you can compare all the variables you want in multitudes of ways....
I would agree - except that someone who has no knowledge of spreadsheets isn't likely to pick up SQL in a hurry ...

For the OP, to keep in mind as you learn, the biggest beginner mistakes that spring to mind are:

- When you use formulas, stick to them. Never EVER overwrite a formula with a number even when you know it's the right answer. It will come back to bite you.
- Don't waste time on a lot of formatting. This is not a word processor, and you'll probably blow it all away in any case when you start doing clever things like sorting data.
- Don't insert empty lines or columns without a really good reason. They may make things look nice but will drive you crazy when you start sorting and summing things.
- Formulas can quickly get complex. Doing calculations in multiple stages, with extra columns or rows to hold the partial results, will make it clearer what you had in mind when you go back to change things.

Feel free to contact me with specific problems or if you need help understanding why something doesn't work the way you think it should. Yes, I'm something of a spreadsheet geek.
__________________
My boat is like me. People look, and say "... pretty good shape ... for its age ..."
AnglaisInHull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:22   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK
Boat: Westerly Storm 33
Posts: 108
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Hi Uncivilised

Part of this is being clear on what you are trying to compare. Is it length, draft, displacement, price?This can all be quite easily entered into a column of a spreadsheet, so you have an easy to read comparison.It just gets irritating when some people put the fuel capacity as litres and others as gallons.

One of the very useful comparisons I have done in the course of looking for a new boat is to take some of the data from www.sailboat.com and compare it. If a boat you are interested in is listed there it will usually have ratios for:

Sail Area/Displacement 1
Balance/Displacement and
Displacement/Length and
also sail area too.
I have translated these as:

Sail Area/Displacement 1 =Rig Power
Balance/Displacement and = Stiffness
Displacement/Length = Heaviness

By putting them into a spreadsheet like this:

Boat
Sail Area/Disp.1
Bal./Disp.
Disp./Len.
Sail Area

Rig Power
Stiffness
Heaviness
Westerly Seahawk 35
n/a
40.79%
317.53
N/a
Sweden C34
N/a
33.07%
265.21
N/a
Dufour 32 Integral
24.28
38.92%
176.92
602 ft2
Westerly Typhoon 37
21.34
36.73%
226.08
860 ft2
MG 335
20.03
42.70%
187.55
536 ft2

You can make some useful comparisons. Using the Data sort menu, you can sort the data and look for the bot with the best criteria.

Sorry this doesn’t teach you how to use a spreadsheet. But I hope it shows how you can benefit from it.

The main thing is to get the data into rows and columns and then find someone with a knowledge of Excel to teach you how to manipulate and interrogate it.


Hope this helps.
__________________
"Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read" (Marx G. 1890-1977)

Paul Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:22   #8
Registered User
 
messias's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Salted & Fresh Water
Boat: Dehler Varianta 65
Posts: 183
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

If you´ll post an example of data you want to input (say, from 2 or 3 boats), I can quickly create something simple for you.

and if you add your comments on that same data (what you personally consider a good Vs bad rating on any particular item), You can even have it automatically showing Boat A in RED or Boat B in GREEN and personalized for your own requirements, instead of what magazine X tells you.

That´s not difficult to make... explaining it though.... will take a lot more
messias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:29   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Boat: Jeanneau 54 DS
Posts: 120
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

A great idea!
When using the spreadsheet after minimal learning it becomes easy to evaluate and compare items in general. When comparing houses in the past, I weighted each item according to its value to my wife and I, and then added the columns at the bottom.
For example: in looking for a Blue water boat, one line might assess the value to the owner of having a full keel.
value of 1 for full keel : weighting would give importance in total or lack of importance from 10.0 (mandatory) 1.0 weight (nice) to 0.1 weight (irrelevant)
next line fin keel value of 1: with weighting positive or negative depending upon benefit of liability and how important it is relative to other aspects of the "ideal boat"
Using whole values or decimals, or positive and negatives, one can put strong value judgements upon items in the vessel for sale which allow you to go much further than "boat has it or does not have it".
The process allows you to quantify otherwise very subjective judgements.
Hope this makes sense.
Good luck.
bjymd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:41   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Poole, Dorset, UK
Boat: Westerly Storm 33
Posts: 108
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Sorry about the formatting of my post - looks horrible, I know!
__________________
"Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read" (Marx G. 1890-1977)

Paul Kelly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:45   #11
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 7,994
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjymd View Post
A great idea!
When using the spreadsheet after minimal learning it becomes easy to evaluate and compare items in general. When comparing houses in the past, I weighted each item according to its value to my wife and I, and then added the columns at the bottom.
For example: in looking for a Blue water boat, one line might assess the value to the owner of having a full keel.
value of 1 for full keel : weighting would give importance in total or lack of importance from 10.0 (mandatory) 1.0 weight (nice) to 0.1 weight (irrelevant)
next line fin keel value of 1: with weighting positive or negative depending upon benefit of liability and how important it is relative to other aspects of the "ideal boat"
Using whole values or decimals, or positive and negatives, one can put strong value judgements upon items in the vessel for sale which allow you to go much further than "boat has it or does not have it".
The process allows you to quantify otherwise very subjective judgements.
Hope this makes sense.
Good luck.
This is a very important point that should not be forgotten, 'cept that you should build your ss first, then you can add these "weighted balance" items later, for that is what they are called in true "Value Engineering" analysis terms.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:46   #12
Registered User
 
SailingFan's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Florida
Boat: Hunter 27, 1978
Posts: 471
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjymd View Post
A great idea!
When using the spreadsheet after minimal learning it becomes easy to evaluate and compare items in general. When comparing houses in the past, I weighted each item according to its value to my wife and I, and then added the columns at the bottom.
For example: in looking for a Blue water boat, one line might assess the value to the owner of having a full keel.
value of 1 for full keel : weighting would give importance in total or lack of importance from 10.0 (mandatory) 1.0 weight (nice) to 0.1 weight (irrelevant)
next line fin keel value of 1: with weighting positive or negative depending upon benefit of liability and how important it is relative to other aspects of the "ideal boat"
Using whole values or decimals, or positive and negatives, one can put strong value judgements upon items in the vessel for sale which allow you to go much further than "boat has it or does not have it".
The process allows you to quantify otherwise very subjective judgements.
Hope this makes sense.
Good luck.
This is an EXCELLENT idea! Such a document would enable someone to take listings of all sorts of vessels, look up their structures and options, and discard those that don't best fit required conditions immediately, so that the person can concentrate on those that are most likely to be what is sought, and would allow the person to also weight features of each candidate to determine which is the best "deal" per unit of desired capacity, as it were. I LOVE it!
__________________
SailingFan
1978 Hunter 27
Learning by the day!
SailingFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 09:53   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Boat: Bayfield 29
Posts: 17
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Here is an example of a spreadsheet I created. You can overwrite or add columns for new boats. Copy the cells and past into a new spreadsheet by placing your cursor in the top left cell (A1) and right clik select paste. You may have to adjust cell widths and heights (place your cursor on the edges of the column or row (top, bottom, left or right) left click and drag. The Bayfield is my current boat, used as a baseline for comparison.

Boat Bayfield 29 Corbin 39 Corbin 39 Location Kingston Whitby, ON Montreal Price $80K $85K Year 1988 1981 1980 Rig Cutter Cutter Cutter Listing 23 Apr 2014 (still for sale) Boat Name Journey Tammie Norrie Honah Lee II Refit New/restored/refit Prop Shaft and transmission coupling (2014), All engine compartment hoses (2014), Garmin 447S GPS (2013), NMEA inhull depth tranducer (2015), All sails inspected and refurbished by Sail Loft (2013), All Running rigging replaced (2013), Anti fouling VC 17 applied annually Awlgp painted hull (2004), new engine and saildrive (2005), interior restoration and painting, deck fixtures sealed, LED lights throughout,stripped w/interprotect and anti-fouling, new batteries, new interior upholstery, rebuilt saildrive, new windlass (2014) Dimensions LOA 29' 38'5" 38'5" Beam 10'2" 12''6" 12''6" LWL 21'9" 32'0" 32'0" Length on Deck Draft 3'6" 5'6" 5'6" Displacement 7100 lbs 26000 lbs 26000 lbs SA 429 sq ft SA/Disp Ratio 18..25 Disp/Length Ratio 308.16 Ballast 3000 llbs 9600 lbs 9600 lbs Headroom Bridge Clearance Freeboard Hull 11 Layers Matt and roving fibreglass, Constructed from 1982 to 1989, Launched in Cardinal, Ontario in 1990. Stored on land from
1998 to 2006. Relaunched in Whitby,
Ontario in 2006 and stored on land again since 2011
11 Layers Matt and roving fibreglass Bow Thruster Pilothouse Yes Keel & Rudder Full Keel Fin w/skeg hung rudder Fin w/skeg hung rudder Bowsprit Yes No Tanks Fresh Water 20 gals 200 gals Fuel 20 gals 100 gals Holding 20 gals 75 gals Propane Engine Type Yanmar 2GM20, 18 hp Less than 300 hours on the Perkins 4-801 w/Hurth reversing gearbox, Aquadrive CVA, Vetus water trap, Engine controls in pilothouse and cockpit Volvo Penta D3 (55hp) (2005) Hours Alternator Heavy Duty Alternator, Heavty Duty Powerline Alternator (??), cut Out Switch?? 120 Amps Balmar Dual Charger Cruising Speed Cooling Drive Saildrive Volvo 25 ms (2005) w/Max Prop (3 fins) (2005) Prop 3 blade, bronze Other On Deck Helm Steering Mechanical and Hydraulic (Whitlock, Vetus) Compass Yes 5" Plastimo Binnacle Mounted Dodger Yes Fabric Fabric Bimini Yes Full enclosure fabric Cockpit Weather boards and screen, cushions Winches Three halyard, two jib sheet, two staysail sheet 3 X Barlow 16 (mast mounted), 2 X Gib 7 STA (boom mounted), 1 X Sheet tending (cockpit fwd), 2 X Harkin 53 (cockpit combing), 2 X Lewmar 30 (cockpit combing) Barbeque Yes Optional Dickson Vents and hatches Atkins and Hoyle. Hatch in head, Four cabin ports. 5 hatches on deck, 4 hatches in pilothouse, Optional SS vents. Crows Nest Lockers two cockpit seat lockers, lazarette Boom Gallows Other Wind Vane Yes Sails Main Battened **9.25 oz stabilized Dacron, 2 rows of reefs, shelf foot and flattening reef, re-inforced batten pockets. Main Staysail Yes **8.5 oz Dacron, one row of reefs (reduce to stormsail) Staysail w/Proful furling (2005) Headsail Heavy weather Jib - 9.25 oz Dacron, 325 sq ft, (Use as twin sail for heavy downwind sailing), Yankee Yes on roller furler **120% L.P., 645 Sq Ft, furling 7oz Dacron Leech and Foot Grand Yankee w/Proful furling Genoa Mizzen Storm Sails Storm Jib - Back-up sail, 10.5 oz, 98 sq ft, Storm trisail - 10.5 oz Dacron, set from separate track (Herreschoft 7/8" SS track) Staysail storm DRS (Drifter, Reacher, Spinnaker) Triradial design, 1.5 oz fabric, 1487 sq ft Spinnaker Pole Sheets and halyards replaced 2013 Mast, Boom, Shrouds and Stays 52' Aluminum Mast, double spreaders, Boom w/isovang, staysail clubfoot spar. Heavy duty standing rigging. Lazyjacks Replaced 2016 Yes Covers Main and Staysail - Blue Acrylic Canvas Other Sails built to Ocean Cruising Standards by Sobstad Sailmakers, Thornton, Ontario ** Only these sails used Ground Tackle Windlass Manual - Simpson Lawrence Powered Main Plough 300 ft chain w/33 lb Bruce 2 Bruce 1 X Delta 3 Kingston 4 Rode Other Below Deck Finish Hand rubbed cherry wood Fibreglass w/wood trim Cabins Large Aft, V Berth in bow Headroom Between 6ft – 6ft4in of Headroom Berths two quarter berths,
two berths in main cabin, one of which converts into a double.
Brass Ship's bell Heads unique feature of the Bayfield 29 is that it has no V-berth,The Bayfield 29 has a huge and comfortable head where the v-berth is normally found. Shower Lamps/Lighting Entertainment AM/FM Stereo and CD player w/six speakers Heater Espar Diesel w/forced air ducting throughout Airtronic diesel Air Conditioning Hot Water Yes, tank cracked and needs to be replaced Watrer Heater - 11 gal Storage Other Galley Refrigeration AC/DC Fridge and Freezer, refridgerant gauges (for charging) EZ Cold Stove/Oven 3 burner gimballed stove and oven Force One, round 4 w/oven and grill Sinks Deep double Microwave Water Pressurized Watermaker Other Electrical and Electronics VHF Yes (outdated) ICOM ICF-302 SSB Yes, not connected to antennae Modem Pacter III Weather fax Radar Furuno 1720 AIS Depth/Speed/Wind Wind and Speed - Data marine, Depth and Distance - Link 5000 DSW Simrad IS 15 Intrrumentation pkg Autopilot Cetrek 737 Simrad AP 11 GPS Magellan Garmin G76 Chartplotter Garmin G76 Map Rangefinder Sonar Wind Generator Solar Panels 4 X 75 Watts Generator Electrical Service Batteries 3 X Deep Cycle house, 1 X starter 8 X 6V Trojan (2014), 1X Bosch Starter (2014) Battery Charger Xantrex 20, 40 Amps Inverter 2,500 Watts EPIRB or Beacon Shore Power Other Additional Liferaft Yes Survival Suits Lifejackets Lifesaving Equipt Life ring, MOB pole Drogue/Sea Anchor Radar Reflectors Flare Gun Flares Airhorn Bosuns Chair Sextant Optional Docklines Yes Yes Fenders Yes Yes Boarding Ladder Yes Pulpits and Lifelines Bow , Stern and Mast pulpits, Stanchions and lifelines in place, mesh lifeline net. Towing Log Optional Walker towing log Bilge Pumps w/macerator Fire Extinguishers Gas sensors Propane control and monitor CO/Smoke detectors Davits Yes Tender and Outboard Optional Zodiac w/Evinrude 6 outboard Shown in photos???? Cradle Yes with boat cover and frame ?? Broker http://www.torontoyachtsales.com/boat_listing.php?id=219 http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/42355 http://www.boatdealers.ca/boats-for-sale/283200/corbin-39-cutter-montreal-quebec Broker Broker Sailboat Data http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2174 Survey Yes - received
nelsmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 10:08   #14
Registered User
 
ozdigennaro's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 66
Images: 11
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Do not even think about SQL or a database! It's wild overkill for your task.

A spreadsheet, Excel or OpenOffice, will do the job.

You can find thousands of tutorials (for free) on the 'Net.

Don't aim too high! KISS to start, KISS forever. KISS.

One page, One sheet. Minimize the use of formulas! You do not have to plan it out ahead of time. Be agile! Add things and keep going! I recommend multiple versions as you move ahead. A new version every hour or so. You WILL clobber your spreadsheet and you will want a fast way to discard the ruins and return to the last known good version. I put the version in the filename as date "16 12 21 AM buy boat". This will sort them by date in your finder window. (16=2016, 12=December, 21=day of month).

I recommend: do not start from someone-else's spreadsheet. You won't learn that way. Build your own from scratch. Read examples to learn.

Ten hours will get you a long way.
__________________
Landlocked in Boulder, CO
ozdigennaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2016, 10:08   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Boat: Bayfield 29
Posts: 17
Re: Spreadsheet Help (Needed)!!! For me, & ultimately Newby boat buyers.

Thought I would be able to insert the spreadsheet into the thread. Obviously didn't work.
__________________

nelsmay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Have boat & need parts OR Have parts & need buyers? CatBoatDoug Our Community 0 22-11-2016 06:30
Help with buying a boat in France-buyers broker? Highwayman Monohull Sailboats 0 02-05-2016 11:18
Spreadsheet for Boat-Buying Comparison? outthere09 The Sailor's Confessional 7 25-03-2009 14:03

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.