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Old 29-04-2017, 16:38   #61
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

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At any age I would have considered that an insult. Or at the very least, a sign of ignorance. First, I dislike smoke, did from when I was 5. Second, that's like tossing me a nickle. A sincere "thank you" would have been better.
I do not even smoke.

Maybe if you pull in a luxury boat or something. My boat is about the size of local fishing dugouts and I have never seen regular people insulted by my attitude at the dock. The way I live I am much closer to the people who serve the cruisers than to cruisers. This often insults cruisers.

I did not know a HA HA HA falls that far from expressing a joke. It is not easy to live in social media quarters if you are supposed to be literal.

CHILDREN: I WAS JOKING ABOUT THE CIGARETTES ON THE FUEL DOCK.

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Old 30-04-2017, 06:52   #62
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

I am just amazed at the number of free loaders on the site. Potable water is not generally expensive but it almost never free. Municipal water is billed everywhere and even if you own a well it costs to pump and filter it. Fuel dock managers may choose to give away water or other incentives to attract fuel customers, that is a business decision. I would fully expect employees who violate the boss's policy and give away water for a beer or cigarette to be risking their jobs same as if the give away ice or beer. Taking fresh water from an unattended spigot (on a fuel dock, a house or a store) without permission is about as ethical as refueling from an unwatched pump. Either way it's theft. Like shoplifting a candy bar, one incident is petty but over time it could be a significant cost.
At my current marina they lock the water spigots at the fuel dock when closing but not the spigots at the slips. Pulling into a open slip and taking water would certainly not be OK with the management.
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Old 30-04-2017, 09:21   #63
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

I will disagree with some statements.

I think water is like air - a basic right of a human being, not something we should buy.

We are many and water IS becoming less and less like air though.

Off course, where water is scarce and expensive to make (e.g. coming from desalination plants) there is a fair justification for a fee to cover the cost of production and the depreciation of the machinery.

But at times we are faced with the opposite - spigots locked up where water is aplenty and comes from rivers, lakes or other natural sources.

So there should be a limit to how much can be charged for water in such cases. Unless we want to extend the enclaves where only the rich have the right to live.

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Old 30-04-2017, 11:08   #64
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I will disagree with some statements.

I think water is like air - a basic right of a human being, not something we should buy.


b.
CLEAN water doesn't usually get that way without costly processing so even if free at point of supply it's not free to produce. Someone, somewhere is paying for that.
Otherwise collect rainwater or spring water. Even with spring water you probably need to buy or make a bucket to carry it away. Not much is truly free , not even the wind, since sails cost money.
Drat. I though I drummed the economist out of me years ago.
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Old 30-04-2017, 15:05   #65
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

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I think water is like air - a basic right of a human being, not something we should buy.
Even if there were such as concept in nature as "basic rights"* , that "right" would only extend to the right to obtain water from natural resources, not from human infrastructure which someone has paid (with money or labour) to build to make it's collection safer or easier and which has to be maintained at some cost.

You are quite at liberty to collect rainwater, river water, snow/ice wherever you can find it if you believe you have a "basic right" to it.

*
Mother Nature hasn't signed any "Declaration of Human rights"
"Human Rights" are just agreements between humans.
There are no rights without obligations.
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Old 30-04-2017, 16:49   #66
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

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Even if there were such as concept in nature as "basic rights"* , that "right" would only extend to the right to obtain water from natural resources, not from human infrastructure which someone has paid (with money or labour) to build to make it's collection safer or easier and which has to be maintained at some cost.

You are quite at liberty to collect rainwater, river water, snow/ice wherever you can find it if you believe you have a "basic right" to it.

*
Mother Nature hasn't signed any "Declaration of Human rights"
"Human Rights" are just agreements between humans.
There are no rights without obligations.

Yes. I agree.

What about the fact that this 'human infrastructure' effectively cut other users off from these natural sources?

Your argument is to me absolutely well formed. But I am still not much in the position to see how any local homeless that does not work nor pay taxes can afford drinking water in such places.

Every visiting sailor buys produce and there is tax in every product purchased. Maybe we could actually pay some infinitesimally higher tax and get that dock water for free. Then it could be free for that homeless person, and also for those hippie sailors in their mickey mouse boat.

I feel we should strive to make this world easier to live in FOR EVERYONE. Not just for people who can pay for infrastructure.

Yes?No?Anythingbetween?

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Old 30-04-2017, 17:19   #67
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

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Originally Posted by indiana_ct View Post
CLEAN water doesn't usually get that way without costly processing so even if free at point of supply it's not free to produce. Someone, somewhere is paying for that.
Otherwise collect rainwater or spring water. Even with spring water you probably need to buy or make a bucket to carry it away. Not much is truly free , not even the wind, since sails cost money.
Drat. I though I drummed the economist out of me years ago.
Yes. Good points. I agree.

I just get that feeling that maybe over the history of our kind, the philosopher, the poet, the thinker, the child, that homeless, this thief, those sailors and these illegal immigrants have added to our culture, our ideas, our world and our humanity too. Have we ever paid them back?

We assume we can read works of Socrates for free but in the same line we claim it is fine to charge for something as basic and as indispensable to life as water.

The economist just told us the infrastructure was a cost and then wants us to pay this cost forever. Is it possible we overrate the opinion of economists because our culture is driven by governments driven by business owners?

And who employs economists? Not Socrates, not the mother, not that homeless, not those hippie sailors. The business owner does. The same business owner that owns the government. So what else do we expect to hear from the economist?

No. Do not build your infrastructure with your credit cards. Then the future generations will not have to pay for water. The infrastructure is in place, this implies it has been paid for. Now use it.

I know this is not the case. The governments buy stuff with borrowed money. Even the US is now 100% indebted. We will keep paying for this water. Now and tomorrow.

Our rain catcher system is very efficient. But it is not very rainy in the West Indies. Maybe I should load our boat full of fresh water here then sell it on the other side. Since there are so many people willing to pay for water.

;-) ;-( ?

Good night and thanks for this stimulating and educative discussion.
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Old 30-04-2017, 17:47   #68
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

Here's the deal...

When you come to the fuel dock and buy dieself or gas you can use water to fill your tanks and even often for a qucikie washdown. Don't attempt this on weekends when they want to sell lots of fuel to power boats.

Best time is to come along side in the evening. You can often find a town dock with water, or a restaurant with a dock and a hose bib.

Yacht clubs don't seem to like to provide services to non members, but it's worth a try... Some are more welcoming than others and might even offer you access to their restaurant.

Water has been free at every dock I've been at in southern NE except West Harbor, Fishers Island, NY.

If you come along side in the evening.... don't expect help with your dock lines and make sure you have a hose as well and if you use theirs.. put it back the way you found it.
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Old 30-04-2017, 17:50   #69
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

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I am just amazed at the number of free loaders on the site. Potable water is not generally expensive but it almost never free. Municipal water is billed everywhere and even if you own a well it costs to pump and filter it. Fuel dock managers may choose to give away water or other incentives to attract fuel customers, that is a business decision. I would fully expect employees who violate the boss's policy and give away water for a beer or cigarette to be risking their jobs same as if the give away ice or beer. Taking fresh water from an unattended spigot (on a fuel dock, a house or a store) without permission is about as ethical as refueling from an unwatched pump. Either way it's theft. Like shoplifting a candy bar, one incident is petty but over time it could be a significant cost.
At my current marina they lock the water spigots at the fuel dock when closing but not the spigots at the slips. Pulling into a open slip and taking water would certainly not be OK with the management.

Only paid for water in the Caribbean... and Fishers Island NY... every place else there was no charge...
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Old 01-05-2017, 02:26   #70
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

In North Wales I filled up bottles from public taps on the harbourside for no charge. Where I was in West Africa there was no such thing as a clean water tap. You could buy bottled water.

If I needed water, anywhere in the world that was populated I would politely ask and be prepared to pay. Everywhere is different as regards supply but people are people and being nice has value. "Honey catches more flies than vinegar". I haven't sailed so extensively yet but I've travelled well beyond the norm. I can't think of a single place where politeness wasn't respected. You can always become more casual as the conversation develops but it may not work the other way around. "Hey buddy, I'm getting some of that water" could well put somebody's back up and you've blown it then. You can still be polite and assertive. It's a communicative art.
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:48   #71
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

The best gallon sized water jugs I find to hold up the longest (and bpa free I think) are the Trader Joe's New Zealand one, blue tint . The handle usually lasts for at least a year. Their slender shapes also gets cold faster against the cold plate.
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Old 01-06-2017, 16:08   #72
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Re: Newbie.. where to refill water tanks when on mooring/anchor?

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The best gallon sized water jugs I find to hold up the longest (and bpa free I think) are the Trader Joe's New Zealand one, blue tint . The handle usually lasts for at least a year. Their slender shapes also gets cold faster against the cold plate.
I am linking images to my favourite one too. Available free in Panama (if you buy the water!). But I know they are US style.

The way these have the handle molded in is very easy to grab and pour even in rolly boat and to a person with delicate hands (like my mate's).

http://allamericancontainers.com/wp-...32-500x500.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...94e246fb82.jpg

Good stuff and next to free.

Cheers!
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