Efficient cooking

[gauvins]

What's the state of the art wrt cooking? We currently have the ubiquitous propane stove. Drawbacks being finding propane, safety, and adding heat to an already hot galley.

Induction plates and microwave ovens require obscene amounts of electricity (1200W or so). Slow cookers are poorly insulated and transfer considerable energy into ambient heat. Solar ovens look like inadequate solutions for morning coffee and evening meal (we do not heat food for lunch anyway).

We make coffee with a stove-top moka pot, frequently cook pasta, occasionally do pancakes, and grill meat. Being able to do this without propane would be great. Possible?

[belizesailor]

Retained Heat Cooking uses a lot less energy than continuous active heating, dramatically reduces heat transfer into boat, and does not need to be monitored (as does anything with an active burner)...so you can go do fun stuff like snorkel.

The concept is ancient, but there are new variations on it like the Wonder Bag.

https://www.wonderbagworld.com/

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Retained Heat Cooking uses a lot less energy than continuous active heating, dramatically reduces heat transfer into boat, and does not need to be monitored (as does anything with an active burner)...so you can go do fun stuff like snorkel.

The concept is ancient, but there are new variations on it like the Wonder Bag.

https://www.wonderbagworld.com/

This thing is awesome and dramatically reduces propane use.

[lamadriver]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

This thing is awesome and dramatically reduces propane use.

wonderbags.....

I have 2 a big one and a little one. they are awesome. I use it to rise dough, stews, soups, rice, lentals, everything i can get away with.

Neat story behind it aswell

[jkindredpdx]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Retained Heat Cooking uses a lot less energy than continuous active heating, dramatically reduces heat transfer into boat, and does not need to be monitored (as does anything with an active burner)...so you can go do fun stuff like snorkel.

The concept is ancient, but there are new variations on it like the Wonder Bag.

https://www.wonderbagworld.com/

+1... I try to minimize my electric power consumption. I use an LPG stove to cook then: store boiled coffee/tea water in a Thermos Jug and finish cooking oatmeal, pasta, stew etc. in a DIY wonder bag. In nice weather, I cook meat and roasted veggies outside on the grill.

As for propane safety, I'm careful and turn off the solenoid switch when I'm not cooking, have a Xintex gas sniffer, and turn off at the tank when LPG will not be used for awhile.

[HankOnthewater]

I think cooking can be done with energy sources like : alcohol, kerosene, electricity, propane/butane gas, petrol, diesel and you mentioned solar-oven.
Take your pick.
Many of the above are not state of the art, are passé, or have inherent risks.

After you have taken your pick you decide how to use that energy: plain pots and pans, pressure cooker, slow cooker, retained heat type of cooking.

I think is a question of elimination: what do you like, what fits on your boat, size of your wallet, and what risks are you prepared to live with. If you are 100% risk adverse..... cooking might not be for you.

For me propane works well, cheap, reliable, and risks can be managed; particularly with a pressure cooker or retained heat cooking, very economical.

If diesel stoves would be simpler, more reliable and cheaper, I might go that way, but can not see that happen in the short or medium term.

Induction type of cooking might be the way forward, but not suitable for every boat and budget.

If one does not want to have 'cooking' heat inside the boat:
- consider cooking outside or
- cook only those items on the stove that need very little time on the stove, use minimal amount of water, or pick the right food, ie fish can be cooked within minutes while a cheap steak might take 20 minutes.

edit: I see that belizesailor is on the same path: here is another link for retained heat cooking (that I use): https://www.roothy.com.au/products/s...rmal-cookware/

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by gauvins

What's the state of the art wrt cooking? We currently have the ubiquitous propane stove. Drawbacks being finding propane, safety, and adding heat to an already hot galley.

Induction plates and microwave ovens require obscene amounts of electricity (1200W or so). Slow cookers are poorly insulated and transfer considerable energy into ambient heat. Solar ovens look like inadequate solutions for morning coffee and evening meal (we do not heat food for lunch anyway).

We make coffee with a stove-top moka pot, frequently cook pasta, occasionally do pancakes, and grill meat. Being able to do this without propane would be great. Possible?

I have a good gas system and four burner gas stove and oven, but like you I don't like propane.


I have a Nuwave induction plate, and it is so fantastic, that I only use propane any more for cooking when I must have more than one burner. It uses not 1200 watts, but 2000, but why is that "insane"? This is not really a problem on my boat. Easily powered by inverter off batteries or generator or shore power. I would guess that most cruising boats of medium size and over, could deal with this kind of power.



My gas solenoid failed last August and I haven't even bothered to replace it yet -- so little do I care about gas since I acquired the induction hob. I've got a summer cruise coming up and I will replace it this week, but it's no big deal.



In my opinion induction is the bomb for cooking and my next boat will be induction only, no gas.



Induction gives a simply superior cooking experience -- as much better than gas, as gas was better than old fashioned resistance electric cooking, in my opinion. But it also uses very little power because it is so efficient in transferring heat into the food. I can cook a meal on the induction plate and hardly notice the effect on my batteries. It uses 2000 watts only at peak -- say boiling a large pot of water -- and for a few minutes at most. The rest of the time it cycles down to maintain whatever temperature you set.



My boat also has a built-in microwave which I use a lot, at least 20 times more often than the gas oven. This is also extremely efficient -- 2000 watts for just a few minutes at a time. Even 10 minutes of 2000 watts is only .333 kW/h, and I rarely run the microwave like that -- usually it's just a couple minutes at a time.


Anyway, for a boat with a generator being used off-grid, you would normally time your generator runs to coincide with greatest demand. So do that during dinner preparation and Bob's your uncle.


I think electric cooking is the way to go these days.

[bigdogandy]

I use a small pressure cooker on my propane stove and it’s very efficient. Use a propane grill for when I don’t want to heat up the cabin. Also have a small Trangia alcohol backpacking stove as backup for the propane system....and it’s the perfect heat source for my little Bialetti espresso maker!

[Zanshin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...I think electric cooking is the way to go these days.

I agree with that. I have a 4-spot electric stove/oven aboard and it works wonderfully, although it would be nice to save a bit of energy by going to induction.

Even baking bread takes relatively little energy - quite a bit up front to heat the oven but after that it just sips power from the inverter to maintain temperature. Similarly bringing water to boil or frying something isn't as energy-hungry as many believe, the element is only at 100% for a fraction of the time.

I have no propane lines going into the boat, although I do have propane outside for the BBQ. Years ago I lost a friend to a gas explosion in his house and I've avoided gas ever since.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

I agree with that. I have a 4-spot electric stove/oven aboard and it works wonderfully, although it would be nice to save a bit of energy by going to induction.

Even baking bread takes relatively little energy - quite a bit up front to heat the oven but after that it just sips power from the inverter to maintain temperature. Similarly bringing water to boil or frying something isn't as energy-hungry as many believe, the element is only at 100% for a fraction of the time.

I have no propane lines going into the boat, although I do have propane outside for the BBQ. Years ago I lost a friend to a gas explosion in his house and I've avoided gas ever since.

Hi what's your battery and charging setup?

[Zanshin]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hi what's your battery and charging setup?

I've got 4x220Ah AGM batteries for the house bank, a 10kW generator, 700W of solar and a Victron 5kW inverter/charger.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don’t have anything against electric cooking, we have a toaster for instance, cause toasting with the oven is well, not easy or smart I don’t think, but I think I have noticed something, and that’s we try to always try to be in warm weather, which means when away from the Marina with usually everything opened up, exception is of course when it’s raining.

The best way to make toast without electricity is to use a diffuser on a gas burner. Works better than an oven and uses less gas. You can also use a diffuser on other heat sources, electric stove, wood stove, probably induction, etc.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

So your amp counting?
I do also of course, and surprisingly to me it’s is accurate and stays so, but I assume that is because pretty much everyday I achieve 100% full SOC based on trailing amps charge at absorption voltage.

See the difference here is that you don't have to do that and the fact that you insist on keeping your batteries at or near 100% SOC limits what you can put into them with your panels.


Just let the SOC drop and figure you're doing fine on a bright day if they get up to 90%. If flooded then equalize every month or two. Your batteries won't last as long but so what. Sails don't last as long if you use them either. Besides you'll run the generator less and save some wear and tear and fuel cost.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...This is also extremely efficient -- 2000 watts for just a few minutes at a time. Even 10 minutes of 2000 watts is only .333 kW/h, and I rarely run the microwave like that -- usually it's just a couple minutes at a time....

There is no such unit as kW/h. it is kWh.



2000 W = 2 kW = 33 AH at 12V for 10 minutes of use. Not a lot, but not trivial if used several times each day (I included an allowance for inverter loss). That's probably about 80 W of solar panel, on the average, just for that one use. Add induction cooking, an only boats with substantial charging resources could make that work. Yours has that.

[a64pilot]

2000W at 120 VAC is 16.7 amps AC or roughly 170 amps from a battery bank.
Average cruising boat shore power is 30 amps, so that’s more than 50% of all power available for ONE burner, so sure you can do it on shore power or if you have a large enough generator. A Honda 2200 busting its gut might can do it, a 2000 likely won’t.

But then what are you going to do about a second burner? How about the oven? We typically use all three at the same time.

As far as timing your generator loads for when there is the most load, sure, but thats morning before Solar really kicks in and your bank can take the power the generator will make, most heavy cooking is done late in the day, when you really don’t want to be running the generator due to battery acceptance.

So now we are back to where we pretty much always end up with electric cooking threads, yes it can be done, if you have a massive Solar array or a generator, but it pretty much also takes a Lithium bank to make it work.

Most cruising boats chronically undercharge their banks, adding in electric cooking just isn’t happening, unless you don’t mind a generator running so that you can cook.

Propane is dangerous, but so is high amp high voltage current, both can be used safely though.
We use 10 lbs a month and that’s high as we eat out very little, I carry four bottles, a four month supply. Two in the locker, one on a rail for the grill. And one on deck.

So yes you can of course use electricity to cook, but your going to have to have one very robust electrical system to do so, and most likely a built in generator.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

2000W at 120 VAC is 16.7 amps AC or roughly 170 amps from a battery bank.
...snip

170A for 5min is 14Ah. Not much to worry about