Efficient cooking

[StuM]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That makes perfect sense, but still 400W x two plates for half an hour is a lot of power.
Plus you guys keep ignoring the oven, how do you bake bread? Bake a cake? Brownies? Even a meat loaf?
Do you fry all of your meat?
We use the oven a lot, and a microwave heats some things, but its not an Oven, it doesn’t brown anything.
Decades ago we had a Sears micro / convection oven, now that thing was pretty slick, but I haven’t seen one lately for some reason.

I don't use the induction plate exclusively, also have a three ring propane stove and oven. Plus a microwave and multi-cooker.



(and 1000Ah of AGM with 800W of solar )

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Respectfully... you don’t know what you’re talking about.



We have 450w of solar which powers all electric cooking, refrigeration, navigation including two 12 inch chartplotters, radar, auto pilot and running the Spectra watermaker for two hours per day which makes 34 gallons of water, Nespresso coffee maker and microwave. All without touching the generator and which brings us back up to 100% by the end of the day.



You must be doing something/many things wrong. . . . .


Example: Today I noticed the solar generation was reading a positive 1 amp. So I cleaned off the panels, and suprise! surprise!.... it immediately jumped up to 4 amps going in.

Ken, your 450W of Solar based on what nearly everyone agrees to will make 1/3 rd of its rated power in 12V AH. That’s 150 AH at 12V.
Cut those numbers in half for 24V of course, but the power is the same.
So your saying that in a 24 hour period you use less than 150 AH at 12V? Considerably less cause charging is not 100% efficient.

I don’t think so, not doing what all your saying your doing, no what I suspect is that you do a lot more motoring than you admit to. And that’s when your bank gets partially charged, but the rest of the time is being drawn down.

Your also the guy who’s says the Smart Gauge is worthless, it’s not accurate too right? Not many others think that, perhaps it’s telling you something that you don’t want to hear?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, I'm a vegetarian, so I don't fry any meat, or bake it, or do anything else with it. YMMV!


I don't use the oven much -- maybe once a week?


A micro/convection oven would be the very thing -- extremely efficient, and works better and faster than gas. Don't know why you haven't seen them; they are very common.


https://www.bestbuy.com/site/microwa...&intl=nosplash


I considered replacing my built-in microwave (which does have a grill in it) with one of these, but finally decided it would be a bit too small to really replace the gas oven, so didn't.

See, we cook meat, at every meal or nearly so, and meat takes time to cook.
We also use the oven just about every day, She does to be truthful, I don’t think I have ever used it.
But Macaroni and cheese, lots of items just can’t be made without an oven, but a convection is an oven, so that could replace a propane oven, and for meat it’s a lot faster. We could cook a Thanksgiving turkey in just an hour or two in one, it had a thermometer and stopped cooking at the exact right temperature of the turkey, and it browned too of course.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Ken, your 450W of Solar based on what nearly everyone agrees to will make 1/3 rd of its rated power in 12V AH. That’s 150 AH at 12V.
Cut those numbers in half for 24V of course, but the power is the same.
So your saying that in a 24 hour period you use less than 150 AH at 12V? Considerably less cause charging is not 100% efficient.

I don’t think so, not doing what all your saying your doing, no what I suspect is that you do a lot more motoring than you admit to. And that’s when your bank gets partially charged, but the rest of the time is being drawn down.

Your also the guy who’s says the Smart Gauge is worthless, it’s not accurate too right? Not many others think that, perhaps it’s telling you something that you don’t want to hear?

Your figures are absurd and it’s about time someone called you out on them. Contrary to what you think, I’m not stuck in the mud somewhere in a marina writing hundreds of threads.... I live full time in anchorages here in the Adriatic.

I’m going to speculate that rather than purchasing high quality German/Italian solar panels, that you instead went with Cheap Chinese. I’m also going to speculate that you are on only one or two controllers rather than five (one for each panel) like us. And.... that you don’t routinely swing your boom off to the side 45 degrees everyday to eliminate shading issues like we do. I probably get much more out of my 450w than you do out of your 1000-2000w... whatever it is.

Maybe instead of writing so much... you should begin to listen more about efficiency. Just a thought.

BTW: Balmar is junk compared to competing systems... I’ve tried several.

[gauvins]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

But the premise of the thread was what are the practical alternatives to gas.

Actually, I want to understand what the issues are. Based on next to no research, it looks like bringing 1L of water to a boil requires 200Wh. That the most efficient device (almost twice as efficient than resistive stovetop) is the humble electric kettle. Does it matter if we make a distinction between peak power (ex. 2000W for an induction plate) vs energy consumed (ex. 200Wh per liter, I.e. 6 minutes of induction vs 1hour in a low power 12v kettle). Etc etc.

Efficient propane cooking is fair game as well. For instance, minimizing fuel (and ambient heat) by soaking pasta and/or by starting with water that's been pre heated in a solar shower.

We have, say, 500Wh to spare on a reasonable day, and could fairly easily double that amount, if it is worth the time and effort . We have no plan to open a fine restaurant. It is the idea of being able to live off the sun's energy that appeals to us.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Your figures are absurd and it’s about time someone called you out on them. Contrary to what you think, I’m not stuck in the mud somewhere in a marina writing hundreds of threads.... I live full time in anchorages here in the Adriatic.

I’m going to speculate that rather than purchasing high quality German/Italian solar panels, that you instead went with Cheap Chinese. I’m also going to speculate that you are on only one or two controllers rather than five (one for each panel) like us. And.... that you don’t routinely swing your boom off to the side 45 degrees everyday to eliminate shading issues like we do. I probably get much more out of my 450w than you do out of your 1000-2000w... whatever it is.

Maybe instead of writing so much... you should begin to listen more about efficiency. Just a thought.

BTW: Balmar is junk compared to competing systems... I’ve tried several.

OK I’ll go one at a time.
First they are all Hard panels, Canadian Solar not underperforming flexible panels.
There is a Kilowatt of them, and I can easily see 50+ amps in the middle of the day, but almost never do, reason is the bank won’t accept that much.
I do have only one controller, an Outback 80.
I do not position my boom to one side, there is no need my panels are not shaded by the boom.

You don’t do full time either, you part time.

You probably do get as much power out of your 450 as I do my 1000, but that’s because your not fully charged, you think you are, but unless the last few hours of the Solar day your only dribbling in a few amps, your not.
But you likely don’t have to either, good quality flooded lead acid batteries can live for a few year partial SOC cycling, much longer than AGM anyway.

You keep talking about efficiency, but explain that, what exactly do you mean, do you think your panels are more efficient or what?

And what device pray tell is more accurate for determining SOC than a Smart Gauge?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by gauvins

Actually, I want to understand what the issues are. Based on next to no research, it looks like bringing 1L of water to a boil requires 200Wh. That the most efficient device (almost twice as efficient than resistive stovetop) is the humble electric kettle. Does it matter if we make a distinction between peak power (ex. 2000W for an induction plate) vs energy consumed (ex. 200Wh per liter, I.e. 6 minutes of induction vs 1hour in a low power 12v kettle). Etc etc.

Efficient propane cooking is fair game as well. For instance, minimizing fuel (and ambient heat) by soaking pasta and/or by starting with water that's been pre heated in a solar shower.

We have, say, 500Wh to spare on a reasonable day, and could fairly easily double that amount, if it is worth the time and effort . We have no plan to open a fine restaurant. It is the idea of being able to live off the sun's energy that appeals to us.

Yes, for boiling water, induction has no advantage over an electric kettle, which is almost 100% efficient. Electric kettles are fantastic and I wouldn't be without them. My boat, which often has Brits and Russians on her, runs on tea, so the kettle runs 24/7 on passage.



Induction is really efficient not for boiling water, but for cooking something in a pan where otherwise a lot of heat is wasted around the pan.


But note well -- and this is kind of what A64 was saying, and he's right -- you care a lot about efficiency when you're using ELECTRICITY, because our batteries have vastly less power density, like an order of magnitude less, than a propane bottle. But it's not really worthwhile to go into the efficiency per se of gas cooking, because the cost per kW of heat is much less, is almost negligible.



The issue is not saving kW/h's, but avoiding combustion products in the boat interior (I do have an exhaust fan, however, in my boat, which mitigates that), avoiding extra heat inside for those in warm climates (not my problem ), avoiding faffing around with yet another fuel, avoiding maintaining a whole nother system, avoiding the safety issues of gas on board. I think those are the main reasons to consider getting rid of gas, not efficiency.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Ken, your 450W of Solar based on what nearly everyone agrees to will make 1/3 rd of its rated power in 12V AH. That’s 150 AH at 12V.
Cut those numbers in half for 24V of course, but the power is the same.
So your saying that in a 24 hour period you use less than 150 AH at 12V? Considerably less cause charging is not 100% efficient.

I don’t think so, not doing what all your saying your doing, no what I suspect is that you do a lot more motoring than you admit to. And that’s when your bank gets partially charged, but the rest of the time is being drawn down.

Your also the guy who’s says the Smart Gauge is worthless, it’s not accurate too right? Not many others think that, perhaps it’s telling you something that you don’t want to hear?

I'm just happy he's not electric propulsion or we'd hear about magic horse power too.

[a64pilot]

Dock, I think induction is more efficient than a regular hot plate.
It doesn’t make heat more efficiently, but maybe as it heats the cookware directly it transmits the heat more efficiently to the food.
Regular stove of course heats the element, which heats the pot, and I believe a lot of heat is lost to the air in this phase to as well as radiation , and then heats the food.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

You cook in five minutes and only use 1 burner?
I guess that’s heating up a can of soup? That’s not what I call cooking.
Now I don’t cook, I’ll grill but whatever the Wife does in the galley takes considerable longer than 5 minutes.
I just asked, even a simple meat loaf is 45 minutes in the oven.
Let’s not forget that oven, you going to not have one I guess and microwave anything?

It's few minutes to warm up to boiling or frying temperature. After that it's on/off something like 4s/20s or less after a while. Talking about induction cooktop.. Done the cooking and the math also for two "burner". Of course you don't have to believe what I and others are saying but the bottom line is the fan running the excess heat out burns allmost as much Ah with propane

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Dock, I think induction is more efficient than a regular hot plate.
It doesn’t make heat more efficiently, but maybe as it heats the cookware directly it transmits the heat more efficiently to the food.
Regular stove of course heats the element, which heats the pot, and I believe a lot of heat is lost to the air in this phase to as well as radiation , and then heats the food.

Yes, of course, exactly what you say.


A regular hot plate is a nasty way to cook -- difficult to control the temperature, and uses a lot of power -- that's why we grew up preferring gas cooking. Quartz and ceramic and so forth is a slight improvement, but still nasty.


Induction gives INSTANT control of temperature, and doesn't heat anything except the part of the pan which is under the food. The main reason to use it is that it is simply great to cook with -- compared to cooking with gas, the difference is similar to the difference between gas and old resistance electric stoves.



As a side benefit, the greatly increased efficiency compared to previous electric cooking technology, means that it becomes realistic to power from many cruising boat power systems.

[Pete7]

Perhaps the solution on smaller yachts after efficient cooking is to have more than one option. We happily run a slow cooker for many hours from 150w solar panel. Whilst it draws 10A for about 30 minutes to come up to temperature after that like an induction plate it cycles on and off about 50/50 on medium heat. So draws about 5A which is sustainable. Nor does it give off the heat a gas cooker seems to do.

This leave the gas cooker for making tea or cooking rice once the curry in the slow cooker is ready. Efficient yes and saves running the oven for hours. Only thing I haven't worked out is how to secure it to use whilst at sea. Velcro may be the answer.

A pressure cooker is also a great way to cut down the cooking time preserving gas that yachties have used for many years.

[nwdiver]

Propane for a few minutes then a thermo cooker for 5-6 hours and I have curry, stew or braised lamb shanks without using much propane or heating up the galley......

[Zanshin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

...I think electric cooking is the way to go these days.

I agree with that. I have a 4-spot electric stove/oven aboard and it works wonderfully, although it would be nice to save a bit of energy by going to induction.

Even baking bread takes relatively little energy - quite a bit up front to heat the oven but after that it just sips power from the inverter to maintain temperature. Similarly bringing water to boil or frying something isn't as energy-hungry as many believe, the element is only at 100% for a fraction of the time.

I have no propane lines going into the boat, although I do have propane outside for the BBQ. Years ago I lost a friend to a gas explosion in his house and I've avoided gas ever since.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Perhaps the solution on smaller yachts after efficient cooking is to have more than one option. We happily run a slow cooker for many hours from 150w solar panel. Whilst it draws 10A for about 30 minutes to come up to temperature after that like an induction plate it cycles on and off about 50/50 on medium heat. So draws about 5A which is sustainable. Nor does it give off the heat a gas cooker seems to do.

This leave the gas cooker for making tea or cooking rice once the curry in the slow cooker is ready. Efficient yes and saves running the oven for hours. Only thing I haven't worked out is how to secure it to use whilst at sea. Velcro may be the answer.

A pressure cooker is also a great way to cut down the cooking time preserving gas that yachties have used for many years.

Sounds reasonable. Note also that almost all yachts big and small, even circumnavigators, spend most days at some dock or another, usually with shore power. So you might think about a portable induction hob for those times. Save your gas, improve the air in the cabin, and have a delightful cooking experience.


I guess there would be a market for a combo propane/induction gimballed stove, for just such cases -- induction when on shore power or generator running or whatever; propane for other times.