Trapped on the bridle

[dougweibel]

With an overnight frontal passage expected we ducked into an anchorage with good protection and found a zillion other boats had the same idea. Despite the crowd I found a spot that was pretty comfortable w.r.t. distance to my neighbors and set my anchor at a little more than 5:1 scope in 12' of water using a 30' bridle attached at the waterline.. In the middle of the night I realized my mistake - with the expected wind shift I found that at 3:30 AM we were bow to stern with one of our neighbors and separated by only 30'. I should have gone over yesterday evening and asked how much scope they had out but did not. My neighbor, a monohull with at least 4' deck height at the bow had 40' more rode out than I, and she is a pretty long boat too, perhaps 55'.

I sat anchor watch the rest of the night and everything was fine, if uncomfortable. We did watch a nearby trawler drag. If my neighbor drug there would have been no time to do anything.

I was, and still am, at a loss on what I could have done (after the problem was present) to improve the situation. I did not have room to take in rode, release my bridle, and lengthen the rode without my neighbor moving. With the bridle attached at the waterline I have no way to release it beyond drastic measures. Having just moved from a monohull to a cat I am looking for ideas on how to better handle this situation other than the obvious one of doing a better job anchoring in the first place.

[Bill O]

Anchor watch was good to do and nothing happened, so that was good.

Unless you want to ask them to move, you may be hanging out for a while until you can pull up your anchor. They may be willing to help you out since they probably don't want you that close in the first place.

While you were late to the party, squeezing into a spot isn't always the best idea. Maybe the take away here is to allow for more room/radius as you don't know how much rode/chain they have out. Also monos will swing different than a cat, especially if they have a deep draft.

Bill O.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by dougweibel

With an overnight frontal passage expected we ducked into an anchorage with good protection and found a zillion other boats had the same idea. Despite the crowd I found a spot that was pretty comfortable w.r.t. distance to my neighbors and set my anchor at a little more than 5:1 scope in 12' of water using a 30' bridle attached at the waterline.. In the middle of the night I realized my mistake - with the expected wind shift I found that at 3:30 AM we were bow to stern with one of our neighbors and separated by only 30'. I should have gone over yesterday evening and asked how much scope they had out but did not. My neighbor, a monohull with at least 4' deck height at the bow had 40' more rode out than I, and she is a pretty long boat too, perhaps 55'.

I sat anchor watch the rest of the night and everything was fine, if uncomfortable. We did watch a nearby trawler drag. If my neighbor drug there would have been no time to do anything.

I was, and still am, at a loss on what I could have done (after the problem was present) to improve the situation. I did not have room to take in rode, release my bridle, and lengthen the rode without my neighbor moving. With the bridle attached at the waterline I have no way to release it beyond drastic measures. Having just moved from a monohull to a cat I am looking for ideas on how to better handle this situation other than the obvious one of doing a better job anchoring in the first place.

I like the idea of a waterline bridle for moorings. No chafe. But I'm not a fan for anchoring, in part for the reasons you state.

But why not just anchor from the bow cleats? Then all you do is release the bridle (which should be cleated, not eyes in this case), ease rode, and rig a new bridle farther back using a pair of dock lines. You'll get the original bridle back when you up-anchor. I've done this numerous times when the weather changed or to adjust swing. You can also shorten the bridle when that is the better answer.


Another problem with waterline attachment is you can't "feel" the rode when setting the anchor. You can only watch for vibration.


Just because there are eyes at the waterline does not mean you have to use them.

[dougweibel]

Bill - I get the issues and acknowledge that I could have done a better job initially. Another 30' of rode and everything would have been much more comfortable. Certainly lesson learned. Still, if I make the mistake again I'd like some idea on options.

Thinwater - A bridle from the cleats would have been nice. Still, I have significant freeboard and am not sure I would make that my standard procedure due to the additional scope length needed. So then the question becomes when to use the waterline bridle and when to use the cleated bridle?

[tkeithlu]

Thinwater speaks with wisdom. An anchor set-up that you cannot adjust on the fly denies you having a plan B for your anchorage, and that's exactly what happened to you. Whether you solve the problem by moving the bridle to the deck, or by gaining access to the bridle by keeping slack rode on deck behind the bridle, solve the problem to your satisfaction before you next anchor. You'll get more sleep without that anxious feeling of helplessness in the back of your mind.

Good luck with it, and I'm sure there are other cat sailors on the forum who would like to hear about your solution.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by dougweibel

Still, I have significant freeboard and am not sure I would make that my standard procedure due to the additional scope length needed. So then the question becomes when to use the waterline bridle and when to use the cleated bridle?

We probably have more more freeboard than most and use the bow cleats for the bridle/snubber whenever we think it will be a blow. Only in calm weather would we consider using the snubber to the waterline eye.


Bill O.

[thinwater]

What if you need to just cut and run? For example, a boat drags down on you. With the bridle at the WL, the solution is to hang down with a knife while someone holds your feet. That'll be fun if there are waves, or even a boat banging there.

Additionally, the bridle is exposed to the sun 24/7. That can't help.

On monos (that attach a snubber to the WL), there is the additional risk of grinding the snubber under the chain when recovering. This can easily do hidden damamge to the snubber.

Except for mooring--where I like it--I'm not seeing it. There are reasons cruising boats have not traditionally been set up that way. If it was better, we'd add an eye. I have a WL eye and don't use it.

[dougweibel]

Your advice is sinking in... It takes a while to overcome "the previous owner did it this way for years".

I am wondering about the best of both worlds - wondering if anyone has tried a setup where the bridle runs from the bow cleats down to some kind of a turning point at the WL eyes, low friction rings perhaps, and then out. I'm not sure how the hardware at the WL would fare and would need set up so that it is not constantly slapping the hulls when not in use. But if properly done this approach would seem to have flexibility and take advantage of the low attachment points.

[Mike OReilly]

I would never use a waterline snubber/bridle attachment for the reasons the OP has so aptly outlined. Mine always comes to my deck cleats. I probably have a 4/5 foot rise at the bow.

My solution to this situation is three-fold:

#1. I always try and keep some length of the snubber on deck to have an easy way of adding more if needed. I always like to have an easy Plan B ready.

#2. If Plan B doesn't work then I would release the snubber/bridle and re-rig once the new rode length is set. As Thin says, this is the easiest solution. You can recover the original snubber line once you haul up.

#3. (Tell me if this a bad idea): I've considered simply tying off more line to the snubber, thereby extending it on the fly. In a bridle situation you wouldn't even need to lose the snubber while doing this process. Just tie off one side, then the other.

I realize this introduces another weak point, but my theory is that extending the snubber/bridle would compensate adequately. I've never tried this though. Good idea? Bad idea?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

...#3. (Tell me if this a bad idea): I've considered simply tying off more line to the snubber, thereby extending it on the fly. In a bridle situation you wouldn't even need to lose the snubber while doing this process. Just tie off one side, then the other....

Perhaps a variation on the theme:


The bridle on my cat anchored to the mid-ship cleats, and was routed to the bow through chafe gear. I had the stretch of a 48-foot bridle without the shallow water problems. Some take it clear to the stern cleats. I didn't, just because the rope I had on hand was 100 feet. Otherwise, I would have gone to the stern cleats.



It was common for me to move the tails from the mid-ship cleats to the bow cleats when the wind picked up. Very easy, and instant scope increase. When the wind was up, I wasn't worried about the bridle touching bottom.

[dougweibel]

Originally Posted by thinwater

It was common for me to move the tails from the mid-ship cleats to the bow cleats when the wind picked up. Very easy, and instant scope increase. When the wind was up, I wasn't worried about the bridle touching bottom.

Thinwater, I am curious what lengthening the bridle legs (a significant amount) does to the "turning ability" of the bridle on a cat. Did you find you "sailed around" more?

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by dougweibel

I found that at 3:30 AM we were bow to stern with one of our neighbors and separated by only 30'. If my neighbor drug there would have been no time to do anything.

I was, and still am, at a loss on what I could have done (after the problem was present) to improve the situation. I did not have room to take in rode, release my bridle, and lengthen the rode without my neighbor moving.

With little time to act if a boat were dragging down on you, I would start the engine and veer my boat out of the way while still attached to my anchor.

As a preventive measure, you can do this to move your boat to one side or the other, then throw out a second anchor for a hammerlock moor, which should bite enough keep your boat in position (danforths are good for this).

Here's a great article on anchoring strategies in crowded anchorages, including an explanation of the Hammerlock Moor.

Regarding your snubber setup, I'm obsessed with snubbers. Here's a description of my snubber setup that might work for you.

As a full time cruiser who anchors most of the time, I have two snubbers rigged and ready to go at all times-

- Waterline snubber- routed through a friction ring attached to the waterline bow eye, through the anchor roller, and cleated at the bow. I can easily lengthen or shorten at any time, or even let it go in an emergency let out more rode and it will stay on the chain and come up when upping anchor. I use this snubber for crowded anchorages and "normal" everyday anchoring, as well as a lazy back up for my bridle.

Bridle snubber- 100' of dyneema attached to 40' of nylon, run through the bow chocks to the cockpit winches via the job sheet turning blocks. In normal conditions I might have 15' deployed so the chain hook doesn't scrape the bottom, but I get 40' of stretch. In a blow I can let out up to 60 feet more rode to increase scope if needed (more if I remove from the cockpit winches). I consider this to be my storm snubber and use it as the lazy backup for the waterline snubber, so if the lighter waterline snubber breaks, or if an unexpected storm kicks up, it's already attached to the rode.

[PuttingDoctor]

It’s always good to have 20/20 hindsight. As mentioned by many I would prefer to have my bridle up were I have best access to it.
Now for the other side of the story. Do you really know where your anchor is? Do your neighbors? It’s so simple to use an anchor marker to let those around you know how much scope you have out. I use the Elastatether on my boat but you can use any small float with a line to the anchor just a bit longer than the depth you’re anchoring in. https://elastatether.com

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Perhaps a variation on the theme:

The bridle on my cat anchored to the mid-ship cleats, and was routed to the bow through chafe gear. I had the stretch of a 48-foot bridle without the shallow water problems. Some take it clear to the stern cleats. I didn't, just because the rope I had on hand was 100 feet. Otherwise, I would have gone to the stern cleats.

It was common for me to move the tails from the mid-ship cleats to the bow cleats when the wind picked up. Very easy, and instant scope increase. When the wind was up, I wasn't worried about the bridle touching bottom.

Thanks Thin. I know this is the wise approach. My problem is that my mid-ship cleats are a joke. Despite everything else on my vessel being heavy and stout, the designer neglected this aspect. So my only other choice, without getting fancy, is to route the snubbers all aft. That would make my snubbers something like 80 feet long each (160 total), which just seems like way too much line to manage and store easily.

[Breaking Waves]

good thoughts above . . . . but at the moment did you have a dinghy? Could you have changed the snubber from the dinghy without getting to close to the neighbor (pull up chain until snubber is just loose, which means you should not have moved forward, hop in the dinghy and unhook snubber, let out more chain and reattached snubber)? Obviously not an ideal long term solution, but would it have worked at the moment?