Tossing the wind vane

[JPA Cate]

I just want to add that Jim's homemade auxiliary rudder type windvane successfully steered that boat over 100,000 miles. It was silent in operation, and got its power from the wind, thus cutting down on electrical demand.

Ann

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

I just want to add that Jim's homemade auxiliary rudder type windvane successfully steered that boat over 100,000 miles. It was silent in operation, and got its power from the wind, thus cutting down on electrical demand.

Ann

Ahh, come on Ann... it was only about 50,000 miles! And I had to repair it three times and replace the rudder when it broke off in a knockdown. Really a POS, it was!

Jim

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I can't remember hearing complaints from people who have tillers on their boats. I did hear some now and then from those with wheels.

Not sure why so many small boats have wheels. Tiller give so much more feedback and so much more cockpit space.

Maybe some winvane lovers can convert their boats to tiller. I have seen tiller ports on some wheel steered boats.

b.

A windvane coupled to a tiller can be a match made in Heaven... Even on an old IOR-style boat like mine :-) I can't imagine owning a boat without a vane, even for coastal cruising, I find mine amazingly effective, and it's simply a pleasure to watch, being such an elegant use of wind and water, the very essence of what sailing is all about... And it's silent, as well - something anyone who has slept in an aft cabin on passage while an autopilot saws and grinds away in close proximity might appreciate :-)





Vane Lovers are definitely a dying breed, however... I think the only way to prevent their eventual extinction, is if someone figures out a means of interfacing windvanes to chartplotters, to steer to waypoints and follow 'Routes' the way autopilots can...

:-)

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

And it's silent, as well - something anyone who has slept in an aft cabin on passage while an autopilot saws and grinds away in close proximity might appreciate :-)

Vane Lovers are definitely a dying breed, however... I think the only way to prevent their eventual extinction, is if someone figures out a means of interfacing windvanes to chartplotters, to steer to waypoints and follow 'Routes' the way autopilots can...

:-)

Our below-deck linear drive is dead quiet - can't hear it with your head right over it. You must have been on some unusually noisy ones?

I don't think it is vane lovers who are the dying breed, I suspect it is boats that are suitably controlled by vanes that are the breed in peril. Catamarans are simply out for obvious reasons, of course, but vanes can be problematic driving modern mono designs due to response time and rapid speed changes.

Unless someone figures out a way to get people to gravitate back to slower, heavier, less responsive boats….

Mark

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ahh, come on Ann... it was only about 50,000 miles! And I had to repair it three times and replace the rudder when it broke off in a knockdown. Really a POS, it was!

Jim

As a couple of members (and a couple) you folks crack me up!

Made me chuckle. Also nice was the way Ann fondly remembers the work of her man. "Stand by your man…or wind vane.."

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

A windvane coupled to a tiller can be a match made in Heaven... Even on an old IOR-style boat like mine :-) I can't imagine owning a boat without a vane, even for coastal cruising, I find mine amazingly effective, and it's simply a pleasure to watch, being such an elegant use of wind and water, the very essence of what sailing is all about... And it's silent, as well - something anyone who has slept in an aft cabin on passage while an autopilot saws and grinds away in close proximity might appreciate :-)

SNIP...
:-)

I know that feeling. I spent many hours sitting next to a Monitor at work. I also felt it was like the boat was alive and steering itself. The subtle changes as the vane moves and the gentle motion with the wind. It was elegant, and I felt "integral" or "organic" to the boat, a part of it, unlike the autopilot which seemed more like a gadget.

I suppose it had to do with the use of wind that made me feel that way, and the simplicity of the design too.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

I know that feeling. I spent many hours sitting next to a Monitor at work. I also felt it was like the boat was alive and steering itself. The subtle changes as the vane moves and the gentle motion with the wind. It was elegant, and I felt "integral" or "organic" to the boat, a part of it, unlike the autopilot which seemed more like a gadget.

I suppose it had to do with the use of wind that made me feel that way, and the simplicity of the design too.

Totally agree! My previous boat, a 33 foot fin keeler, was at one with her windvane. I used the Monitor even if I was simply going out in the harbor. With an Autopilot, unless you have a "windvane" option, you are always either trimming sails (the AWA is always shifting back on forth) or you are always slightly out of trim. With a windvane, the boat gets in her groove and stays there. The boat sails better and is more comfortable and quicker, let alone more quiet. On that boat, couldn't imagine being without one.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by sneuman

Did you mean 36,000 lbs?

72,000 # = 36 tons. We start with 7000 # of fuel & water. Boat is old school built in 1983, 1-1/2 inch glass hull below water. The main mast is 2000 # with 3/4" stays.

Other problems related to wind steer is a mizzen boom overhang, & tiny pinched in transom. When I replace the Simrad ancient autopilot computer this year I will probably buy two in order to have a spare. Still less money than a wind steer.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by colemj

Our below-deck linear drive is dead quiet - can't hear it with your head right over it. You must have been on some unusually noisy ones?

That could be... Or, perhaps yours is an 'unusually quiet' one? :-)

Sure, I've run some that were not bad at all... Others, not so much. And tillerpilots can be some of the worst offenders of all, with the motor placed right in the ram, mine can really get on my nerves after awhile...

Originally Posted by colemj

I don't think it is vane lovers who are the dying breed, I suspect it is boats that are suitably controlled by vanes that are the breed in peril. Catamarans are simply out for obvious reasons, of course, but vanes can be problematic driving modern mono designs due to response time and rapid speed changes.

Unless someone figures out a way to get people to gravitate back to slower, heavier, less responsive boats….

Mark

I dunno, I think the difficulty a good servo-pendulum vane allegedly has in coping with today's 'faster' cruising boats is often overstated. As you've noted, it's not the speed alone that plays havoc with a vane, but rather the variation in speed due to a boat's capacity for acceleration as a result of surfing that alters the apparent wind the vane is seeing appreciably. Sure, there are a relative handful out there cruising in boats like Pogos and the like, but most folks that I see out there today are not sailing boats that easily sustain surfing speeds in cruising trim, or are capable of such rapid acceleration. Besides, once most boats start surfing routinely, it's often time to start thinking about hand steering anyway, or switching to a smart AP. Looking thru the entry lists of cruising rallies like the Caribbean 1500 and Salty Dawgs, for instance, I don't think I ever come across boats that might be too 'fast', or too 'responsive', for a servo-pendulum vane... Rather, they tend to be simply pushing the upper limits of size and displacement, or possess other 'restrictions' that would preclude the fitting of a vane...

Like this, for example... :-)





Barrett Holby won the 1999 Bermuda 1-2 sailing a Quest 33 - probably still a far 'sportier' boat than most performance cruisers of today - fitted with a Sailomat 601... If it was up to the task of steering a boat like that while racing to Bermuda and back, seems it would be capable of handling most of today's generation of production Flexible Flyers loaded for cruising :-)

[Matt Johnson]

Our autopilot is dead silent too.

I've got to say that this group is the rare lot that actually uses the windvane in harbor/coastal sailing. I've yet to actually witness anyone sitting back and letting their windvane steer close to shore that wasn't just coming off a passage.

Just like I wouldn't go to sea with just one autopilot, I also wouldn't go with only a windvane. I've seen too many people looking for a welder to repair their vane to count them as 100% either.

Matt

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Ahh, come on Ann... it was only about 50,000 miles! And I had to repair it three times and replace the rudder when it broke off in a knockdown. Really a POS, it was!

Jim

Actually, my dear, I believe it was more than 50k mi., but to avoid arguing in a public forum, I'll have to say, maybe you're right!

A.

Okay, now all you guys, laugh out loud, please!

[robert sailor]

As I said, vanes are very cool and do a first class job of steering most mono hull boats under 50 feet and yes a few well over that size but generally 50 feet is a point most guys pass on the vane. Cruising style multis tend to give vanes a pass for a variety of reasons most of which are not speed related and the really quick monos also are too fast for vanes. I do really take my hat off to coastal cruisers who use vanes because in the areas I have sailed while coastal cruising the winds are very variable and constantly adjusting the vane is a pain BUT I remember the days when I was so into sailing that adjusting the vane was just part of the fun. I even loved sailing to windward and sailed without a dodger. Motoring was out of the question if I could get any boat speed at all. As I have gotten older I no longer enjoy everything I did when I was younger so take my opinions as those from someone who is getting up there...and again hats off to you folks that are using your vanes for coastal cruising, your to be commended.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

Just like I wouldn't go to sea with just one autopilot, I also wouldn't go with only a windvane. I've seen too many people looking for a welder to repair their vane to count them as 100% either.

Matt

Well, I've yet to ever face a repair with my vane that I couldn't effect myself underway, or required anything remotely close to a welder... But, on a few occasions, I've had to sit a spell somewhere waiting for a FedEx package from Raymarine to arrive... :-)

But I agree, a vane is certainly not a substitute or replacement for an autopilot, in the way that an AP can take the place of a vane... I consider it to be more of a 'supplement' to an autopilot, and if I had to choose between going only with one or the other, it would be an AP, hands down...

[CarinaPDX]

It really depends where one is coastal cruising. In much of the world the coastal winds can be very steady. For a typical coast-hopping day of 30-50 miles it is well worth setting up the wind vane in many places.

A lot of the equation is the time it takes to rig/unrig the vane between harbor and sea. The kind like Fleming and WindPilot make it very easy and fast to do; my vane with a trim tab is at the other extreme...

Earlier there were comments about the difficulty of adjusting a vane. As with getting the sails set, it is easy to get working but to make it really sing one needs to understand a fair amount. The first few times out will likely require a fair amount of fiddling to adjust for the boat, then later it isn't much effort.

Greg

[stillbuilding]

I am installing a CPT autopilot to assist deliver my project boat and maybe be back up pilot to a more powerful hydraulic unit at later stage.

A first class windvane for this heavy 60' is 7k while the CPT is 2k. Funds being limited there was really no argument.
Nice to have the vane so mb if the funds stretch I will install a good vane as part of the fit out.


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