Suddenly Singlehanded

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Explain to me how a wife maybe in her 50s will extract a man from the water ?

Lifesling is designed to do just that. I used to do mob demos at boat shows. West Marine was the sponsor, one of the original sponsors of the Lifesling. Wed pick a large guy out of the audience and suit him in an immersion gumby suit. Them pick the tiniest woman in the audience to hoist him. He needs to be conscious of course. And the lifting point needs to be high, a flaw we always demonstrated.

Lifesling is 5:1 tackle as I recall. The woman never had any trouble lifting the victim.

Peter

[Curtwpk]

Procedure if at night or rough seas:

Check for witnesses
Call out mayday
At next port, call CG and next of kin.

[CassidyNZ]

I have a 4:1 lift that I pick my outboard up with but I doubt my wife could hoist me (100kgs) on it. In fact, I doubt the hoist would survive

My Lifesling is just a reinforced horseshoe with a length of floating rope packed in a rail-mounted bag. 5:1 purchase? What am I missing? Is there more to Lifesling that I know of?

[markpierce]

High, strong railings help people keep aboard,

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

I have a 4:1 lift that I pick my outboard up with but I doubt my wife could hoist me (100kgs) on it. In fact, I doubt the hoist would survive

My Lifesling is just a reinforced horseshoe with a length of floating rope packed in a rail-mounted bag. 5:1 purchase? What am I missing? Is there more to Lifesling that I know of?

Well, the horseshoe would definitely have to be well reinforced (I haven't seen that kind,), but also the lifesling is easier to get into, depending on the person, and easier to put on someone else when needed. Even if the person was not able to hoist you clear of the water, they may be able to get you high enough that you could pull yourself in.

[JPA Cate]

Explain to me how a wife maybe in her 50s will extract a man from the water ?

We have a lifesling and a sugar scoop boat, with a ladder right there. If necessary, we also have a 4:1 tackle I can use. We have a Milwaukee 28 v. right angle drill motor with a winch bit, and I can hoist Jim easily with that. It'll do 3 trips to the masthead for him, and there's always the spare battery kept charged up. All our winches are self-tailing.

I am in my 80's, and I'm here to tell you a woman in her 50's can be as strong as she was at 35 with not much difficulty, unless there is a physical problem. My gender is female, and I am small. I had a hard time with the notion of female = incompetent. It is true, though, that actually lifting someone much bigger aboard is not on for smaller people, regardless of gender. The weaker people physically need tools to compensate for their lack of physical strength. Like I used used to carry a breaker bar (a long lever) to help me change my tires, back when tires were less reliable than they are now.

I have seen men really turn their women against sailing, through lack of communication, by yelling, by assuming incompetence, by taking them out and making them cold, wet, and terrified, and then expecting to be care-taken as she would a 2 yr. old. I am not saying the person whose quote is at the top of this post is like that, not at all, but it would really be a shame on me situation if I had made that assumption of him.

Ann

[mvweebles]

Recommendation is for a dedicated hoisting tackle at the ready. Repurposing an old vang at the bottom of a lazarette may not do it. . A 3:1 hoist tackle is also made if you can augment with a winch.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/lifes...rboats--595720

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Recommendation is for a dedicated hoisting tackle at the ready. Repurposing an old vang at the bottom of a lazarette may not do it. . A 3:1 hoist tackle is also made if you can augment with a winch.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/lifes...rboats--595720

Pricey but that is a good set-up to have.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Well, the horseshoe would definitely have to be well reinforced (I haven't seen that kind,), but also the lifesling is easier to get into, depending on the person, and easier to put on someone else when needed. Even if the person was not able to hoist you clear of the water, they may be able to get you high enough that you could pull yourself in.

Mine has a normal plastic-covered horseshoe but has a 2” nylon webbing harness sewn in and integrated onto the SS ring to which the floating line also attaches. Whilst I wouldn’t place huge trust in the floating line, it’s probably well capable of lifting a human, even my size

As it happens I have a well developed rear pushpit with integrated boarding ladder that extends three rungs underwater. It looks eminently serviceable but the problem is with anything but a flat sea, the transom/bottom of the boat rising and falling will probably make use of the ladder a life-threatening exercise.

Mind you, it’s not as life-threatening as not getting back on the boat I’d certainly give it my best shot. But I honestly don’t think my wife would manage that but then, I’m more than capable of hauling her aboard on the outboard lift - she only about 65kgs.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Explain to me how a wife maybe in her 50s will extract a man from the water ?

At the simplest end of the scale are electric winches.

Hauling systems can get a bit more complex, but still possible. The important part is testing them so you can iron out any issues well in advance. I agree with the bit about stuff getting messed up in a panic. It needs to be packed so it won't tangle; any ends should be clearly marked, etc. Any blocks needed for a redirect should also be similarly prepped, and if you expect to use a particular winch you need to make sure the line can actually reach it.

The one gripe I have with hauling systems is people either pull with their arms (tiring) or use a winch (slow, and also uses their arms). Most people have far greater strength in their legs, so a hauling system designed around this can work faster and be less tiring. Hmm... now I have an idea...

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Mine has a normal plastic-covered horseshoe but has a 2” nylon webbing harness sewn in and integrated onto the SS ring to which the floating line also attaches. Whilst I wouldn’t place huge trust in the floating line, it’s probably well capable of lifting a human, even my size

As it happens I have a well developed rear pushpit with integrated boarding ladder that extends three rungs underwater. It looks eminently serviceable but the problem is with anything but a flat sea, the transom/bottom of the boat rising and falling will probably make use of the ladder a life-threatening exercise.

Mind you, it’s not as life-threatening as not getting back on the boat I’d certainly give it my best shot. But I honestly don’t think my wife would manage that but then, I’m more than capable of hauling her aboard on the outboard lift - she only about 65kgs.

If the nylon webbing and stainless d-rings are the ones I am thinking of, I don't think they were intended to lift someone out of the water.
I know what you mean about the ladder being a hazard to life and limb when the boat is pitching, especially for boats with long overhangs. You have to wait and time it right.

[El Pinguino]

Some thoughts...
Know your course and the reciprocal.... ie if you are steering 120º know that the course back to the PITW is 300º......
Keep a knife in the cockpit... by the helm..
Have the ends of your lifelines -near the cockpit- tied off with small stuff that you can cut with the knife...
It is a lot easier to get someone back on board at point of lowest freeboard ie amidships than down aft in a seaway..... especially with the engine snapping at the PITW's toes....
If you do have a stern ladder make sure it extends well below the water when unfolded... most are designed for getting out of dinghies... not out of the water.... think getting out of water with scuba kit on....
Have a MOB pole handy to chuck over... not with a poncy 'O' flag but a black flag... black being the most visible colour against the sky at night.. thats why fishing boats use black
flags. If truly paranoid fit water activated light to pole
If you don't have that have something that will not blow away down wind... life ring with a mini sea anchor maybe.... as well as a light...

Then....
I think we safely assume that you are not running downhill under spinakker in the Southern Ocean in a northwesterly gale which is blowing over a 15 metre south westerly swell...

So...
Chuck something over the side....

Bring her through the wind so that she is hove to....
Check for lines and stuff over the side..
Start motor
Furl jib.... motor back to PITW...

Then... chuck life ring ...life sling ...whatever ...just as long as it is attached to boat by string...to them so that line drifts down to them and they can grab it...

Thats it...

Last thing.... have big sign by companionway with 'DFI!' writ large on it...
When people ask what DFI is say it stands for 'Don't fall in 'cos if you do you shall surely die.... if the hypothermia and the sharks don't get you then a saltie or a Portuguese man'o'war surely will'....
That will concentrate their mind.... best not do that bit if your wife is a little unsure of the whole sailing thing...

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Don C L

If the nylon webbing and stainless d-rings are the ones I am thinking of, I don't think they were intended to lift someone out of the water.

Yes, I’m not sure what the manufacturers intentions were but what I know from using similar webbing in other applications, the webbing in the Lifesling will easily accommodate the weight of a person. I might put it to a test to be sure.

Originally Posted by Don C L

I know what you mean about the ladder being a hazard to life and limb when the boat is pitching, especially for boats with long overhangs. You have to wait and time it right.

And if you get the timing right you’ll need the strength to hold onto the ladder as it races back upwards - the motion of the stern of my boat in a bumpy sea is fast and relentless.

[TrentePieds]

Written after receipt of post #45, but not obsolete for all that :-)!

Indeed! Explain to me how even a well-grown man can get his 95 lb wife up and over the rail without any mechanical assistance. I'm not advocating that anyone should chuck his beloved over the side to verify what I'm saying, but, perhaps, with Beloved's concurrence, a trial should be made. I know for damnsure that I can't get MINE up'n'over!

So there are one or two itty-bitty details that have not been highlighted in these 40-odd posts.

Firstly, for those of us who sail in chilly waters: Hitting the cold water provokes an involuntary gasp and intake of air. We'll, the air may in fact be water, depending on just how the bod hits the drink, and even a smidge of water in a lung can be deadly! So the bod to be retrieved may be lifeless by the time you get to it.

Secondly, for those of us who sail in chilly waters, the life expectancy of the unprotected human bod in 45ºC water is about 40 minutes. Hypothermia sets in rather before that, so the bod to be retrieved may be utterly unable to render any kind of assistance in regard to getting up'n'over, even if the crew remaining aboard has been able to get to that bod in forty minutes, which is far from a certainty in "real life". I recommend highly that EVERY crew practice the evolution called a "figure 8 turn" EVERY time a new member joins the crew. Teamwork is the sine qua non.

As for boarding ladders: All well and good. IF they stick down far enuff. For a grown man verging on hypothermia the bottom rung on the ladder has to be a minimum of 4 feet below the water's surface to enable him to get his feet on it, and the FIRST rung above the surface should be no more that a foot above the surface to steady him while he does it. One foot spacing of the rungs is good. The loss of muscular strength and control that is the consequence of even slight hypothermia is difficult to imagine until you've "seen the elephant".

So to come back to where we were: If a wife has no real interest in SEAMANSHIP, though she likes to be on the water (as is the case with MY Beloved), then the gaffer is ALWAYS single-handing, and must never forget it.

Therefore, although the OP enjoined us not to advise people not to go overboard at all, I WILL say it again: DON'T GO OVERBOARD!! I will also say: PFD's AND harnesses must always be worn when on deck, even if just to go forward to talk sense to a recalcitrant capstan. That goes for BOTH persons. The boat should be fitted with hardpoints where appropriate in such a manner that ONE tail of the harness' two lifelines can be belayed before the other is slipped. The tails should be short enuff, and the hardpoints so positioned, that the person simply cannot go over the side.

In days of yore, well found cruising boats had running topping lifts. After winches became quite common, only half a hundred years ago, we made the topping lift fall long enuff that it could be taken to a winch because that magically transformed the boom into a cargo boom. A brail under the boom end then took the place of a hardpoint on deck so the end of a harness' life line could be there made fast. The bod, dead or alive, could then be hoisted aboard relying on the mechanical advantage of the winch.

Another "approved" method back then, was to run the mainsail slides off their track, let the bunt of the sail go overboard and maneuver the MOB into it. Then, using the halyard winch, the sail was hoisted (without benefit of slides or track) with the result that the bod was parbuckled up the boat's side and lifelines and dropped onto the deck.

But it's like all other things in the realm of seamanship. It's all very well to have read about it. But it don't count till you've actually done it and worked it into a routine.

TrentePieds

[wholybee]

A rather simple way to re-board someone. I have a 4:1 tackle that I use to lift my dingy onto the foredeck. When sailing, I leave it rigged and attached to the toe rail. It is always there ready. I've practiced lifting a person over the lifeline with it, in a lifesling. I have also tried rigging it to the boom. That didn't work. It was more complicated to rig, and didn't lift high enough.

I have also practiced the figure 8 maneuver, and do it a few times with new crew. It is a good sailing exercise, but if you have an engine available, I think it is the wrong maneuver. I takes you to far from the MOB, and with several turns makes it too easy to lose sight of the MOB. The best move is whatever you can do to stop the boat the fastest. Usually just luff into the wind.