Sailing Zatara causing some Pacific ripples

[JPA Cate]

My two cents:

The attitude that there is nothing to make videos of in NZ is really wrong. It is a physically greatly beautiful country, and possibly the only one that thinks having a sailboat is a universally normal thing to do. There are things to do there that would make good video, things to film that people would like to see, like how Christchurch recovered from the terrible quake of just a few years ago...heartwarming. Albatross Colony. Lots of stuff. There's a kiwi bird (at Stewart Is.) that comes out in the DAYTIME so you can see it, something very few people have seen.

They are probably right that this is a good time to visit Minerva Reef.

If their decision to go to part of Tonga escapes Tongan notice, they will probably not do damage, and they can go to Samoa, if they are American.

If it was a financial decision, I think it is more like the "tragedy of the commons", than an example of USA folks' arrogance. People act to protect their livelihood, regardless of damage to their neighbors. Sad, but it is how it is. Perhaps we (other cruising people) pay the price of others' desire for entertainment?

Maybe You Tube and Patreon accounts are not without negative consequences?

Ann

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

SNIP...
If it was a financial decision, I think it is more like the "tragedy of the commons", than an example of USA folks' arrogance. People act to protect their livelihood, regardless of damage to their neighbors. Sad, but it is how it is. Perhaps we (other cruising people) pay the price of others' desire for entertainment?

Maybe You Tube and Patreon accounts are not without negative consequences?

Ann

I haven’t seen the video as I “unsubscribed” after a recent diatribe on their channel - maybe the one another member commented on. I get enough of the current American divisiveness daily despite efforts to avoid. While many posters here derisively look down their noses at YouTubers, I do have a couple I enjoy watching on a weekly basis. I’m not in a position to move beyond coastal cruising, and enjoy seeing some of their experiences. Sailing Z became less and less interesting as their children acted more entitled and his venting over his “rights” increased. I did view it as arrogant, but that was JMHO. So - in other ways, there are consequences, even if my tiny vote is but a drop in their bilge.

[LeeV]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

I haven’t seen the video as I “unsubscribed” after a recent diatribe on their channel - maybe the one another member commented on. I get enough of the current American divisiveness daily despite efforts to avoid. While many posters here derisively look down their noses at YouTubers, I do have a couple I enjoy watching on a weekly basis. I’m not in a position to move beyond coastal cruising, and enjoy seeing some of their experiences. Sailing Z became less and less interesting as their children acted more entitled and his venting over his “rights” increased. I did view it as arrogant, but that was JMHO. So - in other ways, there are consequences, even if my tiny vote is but a drop in their bilge.

[OloteleMtn]

There used to be a live and let live idea that worked pretty well when i was younger....I guess those days are gone, and we should just antagonize each other in writing and in person until the inevitable disagreements lead to the inevitable violence that seems to be ever increasing these days......there, aren't you proud now?

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

My two cents:

The attitude that there is nothing to make videos of in NZ is really wrong. It is a physically greatly beautiful country, and possibly the only one that thinks having a sailboat is a universally normal thing to do. There are things to do there that would make good video, things to film that people would like to see, like how Christchurch recovered from the terrible quake of just a few years ago...heartwarming. Albatross Colony. Lots of stuff. There's a kiwi bird (at Stewart Is.) that comes out in the DAYTIME so you can see it, something very few people have seen.

They are probably right that this is a good time to visit Minerva Reef.

If their decision to go to part of Tonga escapes Tongan notice, they will probably not do damage, and they can go to Samoa, if they are American.

If it was a financial decision, I think it is more like the "tragedy of the commons", than an example of USA folks' arrogance. People act to protect their livelihood, regardless of damage to their neighbors. Sad, but it is how it is. Perhaps we (other cruising people) pay the price of others' desire for entertainment?

Maybe You Tube and Patreon accounts are not without negative consequences?

Ann

There are a ton of things to see here, but in the winter time South Island is pretty chilly. Most of us are sort of hunkering down with dehumidifiers turned on, and a few making road trips from time to time.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

There used to be a live and let live idea that worked pretty well when i was younger....I guess those days are gone, and we should just antagonize each other in writing and in person until the inevitable disagreements lead to the inevitable violence that seems to be ever increasing these days......there, aren't you proud now?

the problem arises when people just choose to disregard being asked nicely to stay away

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...nthropologists

[OloteleMtn]

Originally Posted by atoll

the problem arises when people just choose to disregard being asked nicely to stay away

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...nthropologists

Depends on whether you think having arrows shot at you is a pleasant discussion.....Minerva Reef is about 1/2 way between Fiji, Tonga, and NZ as best as I recall, which is a good long way from the Tongan island group. Being disinvited to visit the Tongan islands is the right of the Tongan government, of course. Less clear is the right of the Tongans to prevent a vessel on the high seas from stopping at a reef that by rights should be considered as in international waters, as it is well outside of the international norms of Exclusive Economic Zones. Whatever....Zatara is unlikely to give marine life COVID. I found it interesting that the Tongan marine patrol quoted in the article stated that Zatara could only be at the reef when the patrol was there, and would have to leave when they left....seems counter-intuitive to me, if COVID is the rationale. However, I find the new world order frequently confusing.

[NorthernMac]

The teenage anti American stuff is pretty funny

So rubber meets road here, they were respectful of all rules.

They spoke their minds, vs being meek, and disagree with some of the reaction to all this virus stuff, as MANY people do.

So being respectful of other countries rules, while having your own opinions is bad?

[Jdeuel]

Ironic that the guy whose tag line is ‘gettin naughty on the beach in Cornwall’ is a rule-Karen.

[aljunina]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

crushing our freedom of movement?

Allowing too much freedom of movement is why more than 50,000 Americans are catching Covid every day.

Oh seriously! This COVID thing is a fluid situation that needs a nuanced approach and giving the nod to governments that we are unconcerned about their draconian COVID rules is not a good plan for sailors. The fact that most Americans seem to be imbeciles along with the imbecile in chief is the reason it is out of control there. There are zero cases in New Zealand and zero cases in Tonga and Fiji and the Cook Islands. What we are suffering under is the Jacinada politics of an election in 60 days and peoples ignorance and fear as a result of that ignorance.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by Jdeuel

Ironic that the guy whose tag line is ‘gettin naughty on the beach in Cornwall’ is a rule-Karen.

as a naturist it is a great way to ensure social distance

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Seems arrogant to believe that they can just gate crash into another country that has clearly said we are closed. Do what everyone else has been doing for 3 months, follow the rules and do their bit to stop Covic.

From the article:

"The Whitakers tell their viewers that they didn't want to winter over in New Zealand because they would have nothing interesting to film"

You might try going to the source, instead of a third-hand quote. They actually went over it a fair amount in the actual video, and their contingency plan, if NZ said that they COULDN'T check out, was to make the best of it, continue the kids' next year of home-schooling, etc. Of equal importance to continuing their cruising was to not have to be stuck in a cold winter climate.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

crushing our freedom of movement?

Allowing too much freedom of movement is why more than 50,000 Americans are catching Covid every day.

Exaggeration is a form of fiction. Using the totally non-specific term "Covid", was that on purpose?

[atoll]

Originally Posted by OloteleMtn

Depends on whether you think having arrows shot at you is a pleasant discussion.....Minerva Reef is about 1/2 way between Fiji, Tonga, and NZ as best as I recall, which is a good long way from the Tongan island group. Being disinvited to visit the Tongan islands is the right of the Tongan government, of course. Less clear is the right of the Tongans to prevent a vessel on the high seas from stopping at a reef that by rights should be considered as in international waters, as it is well outside of the international norms of Exclusive Economic Zones. Whatever....Zatara is unlikely to give marine life COVID. I found it interesting that the Tongan marine patrol quoted in the article stated that Zatara could only be at the reef when the patrol was there, and would have to leave when they left....seems counter-intuitive to me, if COVID is the rationale. However, I find the new world order frequently confusing.

most people have a hard time grasping the concept of "exponential" spread and that every one is a potential disease vector regardless of location,as soon as you have 2 boats there you have a potential cluster.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by aljunina

Oh seriously! This COVID thing is a fluid situation that needs a nuanced approach and giving the nod to governments that we are unconcerned about their draconian COVID rules is not a good plan for sailors. The fact that most Americans seem to be imbeciles along with the imbecile in chief is the reason it is out of control there. There are zero cases in New Zealand and zero cases in Tonga and Fiji and the Cook Islands. What we are suffering under is the Jacinada politics of an election in 60 days and peoples ignorance and fear as a result of that ignorance.

So edgy

Turning the TV and Facebook off and looking around, aside from folks wearing masks, things are about the same, the streets arnt lined with the dead, the horsemen arnt here.
Crazy how a country that’s soo stupid leads the world in economics, military, science, space, entertainment, etc. This stuff reminds me of all the rich college kids anti American tirades they’d make as they closed out their bar tab with their parents credit card.

If you want to be angry at a country over this virus, might I recommend china?