Sail quantities at night

[Benz]

Darkness is the last consideration when making sail changes--I like to have the optimum amount of sail out for a given wind. Since I sail pretty conservatively in daylight, that just carries on into darkness. But I hate slowing down for no other reason than dark.

[Olorin]

We sail to the wind conditions and so don't reef simply because of darkness.

However, on a passage from Fiji to Australia when the forecast had a significant blow hitting us after dark, we proactively put two reefs in the main before sunset. When the wind got up to 30 knots we roller furled the 130% jib and kept cruising. The wind blew between 38 and 42 knots for 4 hours that night and we sailed along steadily at over 10 knots.

It was a great sail.

p.s. We always have a preventer rigged on the main boom when sailing down wind.

[bvisailing32]

we totally agree with the posters in relation to Night sailing.

Before sunset....

We also, change down or roll the jib down to 110%; Or less depending on the conditions.

We also double reef the main.

Actually, even in the day light, if the winds pick up, we just double reef now, as it saves me going up on deck to tie in the second reef in the main 30 or 40 minutes later.

We are all set, by reefing early and also saves us going up on deck at night to put the reef in the mainsail.

Also at night, with a clear sky, I would sail at times by a star, in reference to a certain relation to a part of the rigging. Also, by the ships compass. If on auto pilot we would double check the ships compass and the compass heading of the auto pilot. And had a hand bearing compass around the neck or near by.

Also, anyone on helm watch , especially alone at night was secured by a safety harness. PFD is a good plan as well.

Having competent crew is a big plus .

We like the sail plan for us to sail well, and not have any weather helm.

We also noted our position hourly, or with any course change or tack on the chart in and the log. Also we would note, note that we checked the bilges, heading, note speed, and weather conditions, and sail plan. point of sail, and check sail trim and any problems or squawks. .

Our rule on board , the on oncoming watch relieved the on watch crew person 15 minutes early.

We would also note in the log, any weather forecast changes, or visual , and actual weather situations. Radio Calls, and even passing traffic that was note worthy.

For us, standing watch , means exactly that, having situational awareness, and paying attention to all aspects of skipper / watch captain responsibility.

There were times, when we , even tho our vessel had the right of way, would have to change course or tack to avoid a collision, with large commercial vessels or motor vessels or sailing vessels......Things happen, such as : No one on watch, or not paying attention, or no one at the helm and the vessel on auto pilot, or on auto pilot , and no situational awareness, or involved in party time , or untrained personnel on watch.

Well, that is how we have sailing for about 40 years, now. So far so good.

[ebsail]

Just as an aside. Why not have both the man and the woman on deck at night.
One can doze under the dodger and/or switch keeping the other awake. Sleep can be made up during the easy 14 hours of daylight. That would give each at least 7 hours and the rest can be made up in port.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ebsail

Just as an aside. Why not have both the man and the woman on deck at night.
One can doze under the dodger and/or switch keeping the other awake. Sleep can be made up during the easy 14 hours of daylight. That would give each at least 7 hours and the rest can be made up in port.

Work out what works best for you. Fatigue is the big enemy. In our case the on-watch person feels free to call the off watch for assistance whenever needed, so there is no point in having both up on deck all night.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by ebsail

Just as an aside. Why not have both the man and the woman on deck at night.
One can doze under the dodger and/or switch keeping the other awake. Sleep can be made up during the easy 14 hours of daylight. That would give each at least 7 hours and the rest can be made up in port.

we tried this, sleeping on the deck in the cockpit is difficult if the watch person needs to move around (which he/she does). Better to be below in the sea bunk where you can fall fully asleep. We simply call down and the other person can be on deck within a few seconds.

We usually go straight to our second reef, skipping the first. On our boat one of us has to go on deck to set the first reef, but the second and third can be set from the cockpit.

Although there are others on this thread that feel the need for making the most speed, we aren't in a hurry and actually we've found we like passagemaking, so if it takes an extra day or two, it isn't a problem for us - just gives us more time to enjoy the stars at night................

[rognvald]

We never sail with any fixed rules other than safety first. We do our own weather forecasting and try to match our sail plan, day or night, to the expected conditions. If there is nothing adverse forecasted, we will carry full sail as per conditions. If there is a chance of squalls or fast moving fronts, we double reef the main and carry the full genoa which can be furled quickly. We really don't see night sailing any different than day sailing, in theory, and try to keep the boat moving as efficiently as possible. However, we sail a 34-foot boat, not a 40-50 foot boat where the dynamics are much different and require greater physical/mechanical forces. So, match your sails to the conditions. There is nothing to be feared. Night sailing is a special, magical time for us. Good luck and safe sailing.

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by gkunkle999

Reduce sails!!

About 12 years ago I learned my lesson... Better safe than sorry

S/V Red Pepper

Yep -- ditto... Unfortunately I'm usually the 24-on and 24-on type of skipper and got caught (zoned out) with all the working sails up on our B24, when the wind went from 10-12kts, backed around, with something over 25kts (according to the buoy data) about 0300; had been up for 24-h and had an accidental gybe -- we got knocked pretty flat in our B24 -- thankfully, just lots of noise and cabin rearranged, stout little boat. The elderly sails and rigging held but we don't do that anymore and fortunately the wife will still sail with me... totally poor skippering, but live and learn.

[carstenb]

On a run from the Canaries to Cape Verde last year, we averaged just over 8 knots for 5 days running. At one point we reefed to our 3 reef in the main sail, whcih is actually a deep storm reef and had furled our genua completely and we still were making 8.

Our theoretical hull speed is just over 8. At times we had speeds through the water of 10+.

The above is why we reef early. But it was one helluva ride

[captmikem]

Originally Posted by Benz

Darkness is the last consideration when making sail changes--I like to have the optimum amount of sail out for a given wind. Since I sail pretty conservatively in daylight, that just carries on into darkness. But I hate slowing down for no other reason than dark.

Agree totally, carry sail for the wind and conditions. Sailing double handed we would carry a chute for days on end in the trades. Shortening sail at night reduces speed which is stability. Why would anyone wish to roll around under canvased? If a squall happens along, it seems natural for one to do the same thing as in daylight, reef! Then when it has passed shake out the reef. Now when crossing the doldrums in the Pacific, it is a bit tiring reefing and shaking out a reef several times a day as the squalls come trough, but one would not get very far and get hit by more of them if they were undercanvased and making little way.

I can not see or imagine any reason to shorten sail when it is not required.

M

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by carstenb

On a run from the Canaries to Cape Verde last year, we averaged just over 8 knots for 5 days running. At one point we reefed to our 3 reef in the main sail, whcih is actually a deep storm reef and had furled our genua completely and we still were making 8.

Our theoretical hull speed is just over 8. At times we had speeds through the water of 10+.

The above is why we reef early. But it was one helluva ride

Next time drop the main and go with just the genoa on a pole--no chance of accidental gybe, the autopilot will be happeir, and you can easily adjust the sail size to the wind. This configuration might roll a bit more, so the best sail combo for those conditions is two jibs on one furler, one on a pole.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by captmikem

Agree totally, carry sail for the wind and conditions. Sailing double handed we would carry a chute for days on end in the trades. Shortening sail at night reduces speed which is stability. Why would anyone wish to roll around under canvased? If a squall happens along, it seems natural for one to do the same thing as in daylight, reef! Then when it has passed shake out the reef. Now when crossing the doldrums in the Pacific, it is a bit tiring reefing and shaking out a reef several times a day as the squalls come trough, but one would not get very far and get hit by more of them if they were undercanvased and making little way.

I can not see or imagine any reason to shorten sail when it is not required.

M

Make your own decisions, but I call this really, really, really bad advice, on all accounts.

[billknny]

This is one where it really depends on the boat, and crew.

The problem is that the conditions that are most likely for squall development overnight is when the winds are on the lighter side... just when you want to carry the most sail to keep moving.

On my old ketch with roller jib, and slab reefed main and mizzen we reduced sail at night and took the speed hit. Most often we'd just strike the main and continue under jib and jigger. If it squalled really hard we would roll up some jib.

On the new boat, we have electric reefing on main and jib, and manual roller reef on mizzen. We carry on with full sail after dark even in squally conditions because we know that reefing is a one person job from the cockpit without effort or drama. The only sail we take down at nightfall is the mizzen staysail because getting it taken down in a surprise blow is a bit of a challenge. If we were using a spinnaker it would get the same treatment.

If we are sailing dead downwind we use poled out twin headsails that are also quickly rolled up if a blow starts. A slick system that gets us great VMG downwind in anything over 8 knots or so.

Recently we have started using the CAPE grib to evaluate the likelihood and potential severity of overnight squall activity. It seems like a good tool. Time will give me a better feel for it's reliability.

Like most things sailing, the right answer to how much sail do you carry at night is: "it depends."

[MLOI]

Originally Posted by Akapeterc

I plan on doing several overnight trips on our current voyage north just mainly for practice for when we eventually go overseas and I am curious to know how much saIl people have up at night time when sailing. Do you always reduces sails or if it’s forecast pretty mild weather do you keep full sales up or do you just use a headsail I’m very interested to know what people actually use thanks.

Good idea -means you can skip some of the bar ways going up the NSW coast as well. We did Broken bay - Port Stephens - Coffs - Southport on a boat a bit smaller than yours.

Is it a full moon?

We sailed conservatively, day, or night. Except for the times when we decided to push the boat a bit faster for the fun of it. Mostly it is only fun to crack on during the day, but sometimes during the night with good light and steady wind, we'd push on as well. Conservative means reefing the main at 15 knots apparent, then second reef at 20. Pushing means carrying full main to 25 knots.

What would normally happen in reality is that if there was any chance of the wind building, we'd put in another reef before I'd go off watch and my wife would take over. And if she got uncomfortable at all, she'd put a reef in herself. Then I'd come back on watch and shake a reef out... and get told off if the boat heeled too much or I went up on the foredeck.
If the wind was behind us, we would tend to drop the main and run under the 135 genoa only rather than reef if we were expecting 15 plus knots. We needed to go on deck to fit the preventer, or to change it for a gybe / tack, so it was safer and easier to drop the main early.

So normal behavior was- sailing along happily in 10 knots at night, we'd have everything up. As it built towards 15 knots we would likely reef, unless I was feeling enthusiastic. Towards 20 knots we'd have 2 reefs in, and normally the high aspect jib up rather than the genoa.

Remember you are likely to plan passages based on 5 to 6 knots. And that you are likely to want to arrive where you are going at a certain time due to tides or light etc. So there is not a whole lot of point going much faster. We often reduced sail to slow the boat down to avoid arriving somewhere early. Coffs to Southport there were 6 boats together, and most of us had two reefs in during the night in 15 knots of wind because it was a perfect cold south easterly that was giving more force to the sails than normal. We were still doing over 7 knots with 2 reefs and jib up, and ended up floating past gold coast waiting for dawn and the tide. Very dark night, we had moli doing 9 knots at times which felt too spooky.

So the answer is the same as always cruising- reduce sail to be comfortable. If I stood the boat up a bit I was more likely to have someone bring me up a cup of coffee on watch. If I pushed too hard I had a grumpy wife who hadn't slept well, was feeling dodgy, and I was likely to be told to stay up after my watch to reef and make sure everything was OK. I learnt slowly.

We were always safe. Learning to cruise means learning to make everyone comfortable as well.

Mike

[HankOnthewater]

Hi PeterC, you have read several posts to reduce sail for the night and others that do not. I like Billkenny's comments.
For me? It depends on:
- What kind of boat I sail: if it is more a racer than a cruiser: I reduce earlier
- How easy it is to reef the sails at night: if it is hard or cumbersome to reef, I reef earlier
- Number of crew, and the experience of that crew: if I sail single handed or 2 handed, I reef earlier

If all things are equal I tend to reduce sail before dark, because night time most of us are short handed, everything is more difficult in the dark. Another reason: in the daytime threatening clouds or squall lines are often visible, at night not. I like to have comfy night watches