Rigging trisail - boom to deck

[BigAl.NZ]

I hope we never need it, but we are test rigging the trisail.

One of the things we want to be able to do is drop the boom to the deck and lash it as part of that process.

Its not a fun job, and what it not obvious is whether this can be done with the vang in place. Pics attached below, but its a late 80s Selden vintage mast, and I expect the vang is the same.

From what I can see the strut arm physically can't compress far enough to allow the boom to deck, but though I would ask here in case I am missing something?

Maybe a quick release option somewhere?

[Caleb_Grey]

If things are so bad you need to use the trisail, do you really want to be on deck farting around trying to get the boom down and secured?

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by Caleb_Grey

If things are so bad you need to use the trisail, do you really want to be on deck farting around trying to get the boom down and secured?

Agreed. That is a valid consideration.

The person who suggested the boom is secured to the deck I respect, so I am considering its merits.

In defense of there suggestion, we would (1) go early and (2) I think he suggested it so that the boom is not free to move (even against a tight main sheet rope) (3) the boom/stack pack could get in the way of the trisail ropes.

[Caleb_Grey]

I could see the Pardy's or others like Kevin Boothbay with small boats with wooden masts and booms that are only connected with a leather strap recommending it, but the mechanical connection on a modern boat is not something you want to disassemble on the fly in weather.
At that point just hove to and get some rest.

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by Caleb_Grey

I could see the Pardy's or others like Kevin Boothbay with small boats with wooden masts and booms that are only connected with a leather strap recommending it, but the mechanical connection on a modern boat is not something you want to disassemble on the fly in weather.
At that point just hove to and get some rest.

Just to be clear, I meant leaving the goose neck attached and just dropping one end

[Caleb_Grey]

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Just to be clear, I meant leaving the goose neck attached and just dropping one end

Gotcha, sorry i didnt catch that.
Still dont get the point really though.
At that point just use your lazy bag as a trisail ; )

[chrisr]

certainly the conventional way to rig a trysail includes dropping the outboard end of the boom and lashing it to the deck. this brings all sorts of benefits

however i can well understand your problem, and frankly there is no real way around it. as someone else said : you really do not want to be messing around on deck disconnecting the top end of the boom vang. maybe if you can rig a quick disconnect system...toggle pin or such ? practice on a nice sunny day in the marina first...

otherwise it (the boom) is just going to have to stay there. haul down hard on the mainsheet and rig a preventer line to each side to secure firmly

cheers,

[Jammer]

With better weather forecasting, better offshore communications, and somewhat faster boats, trysails are not thought to be as important today as they were in, say, the 1970s. Offshore storm strategies have evolved somewhat also with alternatives like the Jordan Series Drogue that were not available in the heyday of the trysail and storm jib.


On an offshore racer with a crew of six athletic men in their 20s it is a simple matter to send someone up to the foredeck on a line to pull a pin on the vang so that the boom can be secured. For a cruising couple, perhaps not.


So I guess it depends on the passages you are considering and the crew you have available, and the role of the trysail in your overall strategy for dealing with bad weather.

[Nekton73]

Possibly something like this at one or both ends of the vang might assist you with a quick disconnect, if that is what you eventually decide to do:


https://www.carrlane.com/product/ali...ball-lock-pins

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

Possibly something like this at one or both ends of the vang might assist you with a quick disconnect, if that is what you eventually decide to do:


https://www.carrlane.com/product/ali...ball-lock-pins

Yes indeed a quick release system at one end is all that is required, and assuming you go early enough that it is safe to go on deck.

We will be between New Zealand and Fiji - and fully intend to take advantage of Predict Wind with very regular weather updates, but one must still be prepared for the worst.

Will will test both methods in the marina and at sea.

[Nekton73]

I can't see the method by which your sail bag is kept closed, so it may be sufficient, but if conditions warrant dropping the boom and flying a trysail I suspect you will want it to be buttoned up tight if you aren't going to (or aren't able to) strike the main and bag below.



I have several webbing straps with quick connect buckles that I use instead of sail ties to quickly strap down my mainsail when I don't want to cover it because I will be hoisting again soon, and also to put over the cover when high winds are expected or if leaving the boat for an extended period. Very quick and easy to use and surprisingly handy to bundle various things up and keep them under control. Perhaps not necessary, but I sleep better.



This is the sort of buckle I mean, combined with about 4' of 2" webbing, goes around most anything I need it to and is easy to cinch down to correct size.



https://www.amazon.ca/Adjustable-Con...47852153&psc=1





The lazy jacks also might be challenging to work around and may need to come down and be packed into the bag along with the sail. A couple of messenger lines of the correct length might be handy to have ready in your storm prep kit, should you decide it is worthwhile to lower the lazy jacks, to save you the effort of climbing to re-run them when it's all over.

[Seighlor]

Been there; done that. It's not likely you will ever find yourself in a situation where deployment of the trysail becomes necessary . However, if you are, do secure the boom.

Leave your vang in place and secure the aft end of the boom to pad eyes on each side of the aft deck. Don't even think about disconnecting the vang. A lower boom would be better but, in your case, it's not a practical consideration.

Run the luff of your trysail a bit higher up the mast so that if tacking becomes necessary the foot and clew of the trysail will easily clear the boom and flaked mainsail.

Attach two sheets to the clew of the trysail and predetermine lead positions for your blocks. Keep in mind that the trysail needs to be hoisted to a fixed and predetermined point on the mast for the predetermined position of your lead blocks to be meaningful.

I hope you never encounter a situation where this becomes necessary but planning ahead, as you're doing, is wise.

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by Nekton73

I can't see the method by which your sail bag is kept closed, so it may be sufficient, but if conditions warrant dropping the boom and flying a trysail I suspect you will want it to be buttoned up tight if you aren't going to (or aren't able to) strike the main and bag below.



I have several webbing straps with quick connect buckles that I use instead of sail ties to quickly strap down my mainsail when I don't want to cover it because I will be hoisting again soon, and also to put over the cover when high winds are expected or if leaving the boat for an extended period. Very quick and easy to use and surprisingly handy to bundle various things up and keep them under control. Perhaps not necessary, but I sleep better.

This is the sort of buckle I mean, combined with about 4' of 2" webbing, goes around most anything I need it to and is easy to cinch down to correct size.

https://www.amazon.ca/Adjustable-Con...47852153&psc=1

The lazy jacks also might be challenging to work around and may need to come down and be packed into the bag along with the sail. A couple of messenger lines of the correct length might be handy to have ready in your storm prep kit, should you decide it is worthwhile to lower the lazy jacks, to save you the effort of climbing to re-run them when it's all over.

All good points. The bag zips along the top and the webbing is a good idea - whatever quick connect straps are used - they want to be sturdy.

The lazy jacks we have a method of stowing them.

[nuku34]

If you haven't already got a topping lift, its a must have item IMHO having been in some very extreme weather situations (90kt+ wind and 12m seas in the Tasman Sea off Austrailia in my 12m steel Joshua ketch).

My current boat, a 10m Cavalier 32 has a separate trisail track. The tack of the sail sits just above the head of the lashed down mainsail. The boom is held up by the topping lift (plus the main halyard taken to the end of the boom when the main is lashed down) and secured by the mainsheet, vang (not a solid vang), and two short lines from the end of the boom to the s.s. grab rails on my hard dodger. When the boom is cinched down, it is completely immobilized, no need to put the end down on the deck. Lazy jacks are always taken forward to the mast when sailing, so they are not in the way. The trisail sheets go over the boom to the spinnaker turning blocks on the quarter. The clew of the trisail was designed to easily clear the boom.
I've used this setup a couple of times in 40+kts combined with a true storm jib on a removable inner forestay.

Disconnecting your rigid vang tp drop the boom end to the deck sounds like a hassle and shouldn't be necessary. Also if you did that, how would you secure the boom end to the deck, and would the boom clear your dodger? Of course going forward to lower the main completely, lash it down really securely, immobilize the boom, raise the storm jib and the trysail in 30-40kts and associated seas is never going to be a lot of fun. If you have good wx forecasts, you can do this while the wind is still in the high 20's and building. With sea room, you can beam reach while doing all this. The key is to have all the gear well setup and well tested. You need to go out in 30-40+kts to really know if your set up is going to work. Going out on a nice sunny day in 15kts will tell you nothing. I did my tests in Tasman Bay on a really knarly day with 40+kts and 4m seas.

[Manateeman]

There are two outcomes when the weather gets bad. Either one...it will get better, or two...it will get worse.
So you do a lot of engineering to have the perfect storm sail or sails. Weather gets better...fine.
What about the case where it gets a LOT worse. Now you have sail up when you want no sail up. Go on deck? Get out your knife?
This is a classic risk /reward. I’m not going out on deck unless it’s absolutely necessary. I’d rather have no sail up and sit around or motor slowly than look at some storm sail and think WOW...WHY did I ever put that up in the first place.
You have enough problems down below when it’s bad topside.
Captain Mark