Lee Helm Scare

[scarlet]

I'm what I call an advanced/beginner sailor. I've been sailing 4 years on my O'day 22, and have been very lucky to never encounter a situation that was outside my skill level, until 2 days ago. I could use some advice on how we should have handled the situation.

We were out on the lake for a beautiful day of sailing. 6-9 mph winds. Perfect for our boat. We had our jib up, and a full mainsail, cruising at about 4.5 knts. Perfect!

But then the wind changed both drastically and suddenly. We hadn't seen any signs, and the weather report didn't indicate any major shifts. We found ourselves suddenly under 20+ mph winds with higher gusts. We were at a close reach at the time, and were getting knocked down pretty hard. Normally we try to round up into the wind, but the boat wouldn't round up, even though we had the tiller hard over. We tried not to panic... I knew what was wrong, our sails were over powered. I knew what needed to be done, we needed to drop the jib, and reef the main. The problem is, I couldn't figure out how to make that happen due to the Lee Helm, because we couldn't get the bow of the boat into the wind.

Again, let me state that I'm an advanced beginner, so, my instincts and automatic responses aren't honed, so let me tell you what we did in order, and the results (so you can see my thought processes).

1. tried to rollup into the wind... boat wouldn't go past a close haul. Couldn't douse the sails because they were heavily under load.
2. We were afraid of getting knocked down, so we released the main, which did help ease the force of the wind.. but we couldn't attend to the sails because we weren't in irons... too much load on the sails.
3. We tried to change to a different point of sail to see if we could ride it out a little easier on a different point of sail. (you already know what happened... our sails were still overpowered. )
4. We decided to try to start the engine (a little 4hp) to see if we could use the extra engine power to bring the bow into the wind so we could get the sails down.. The wind was just too strong, the motor didn't help.
5. at this point, I ran out of options. I had my husband get us as close to the wind as we could, and I crawled forward, and released the jib, and pulled it down by hand. This was the most dangerous thing I have ever done on a sailboat. Wind gusts knocking the boat over... the released Jib violently flapping around, including the lines. I was hanging on for dear life. I was scared, but I didn't know what else to do.
6. once the jib was down, we were able to get into irons so that I could drop the main safely.

I would really appreciate some direction on what we should have done. We've never experienced Lee helm before, and i need to know what to do the next time that happens.

Much appreciate the help

[atmartin]

You were on lake, a large one? What was the sea state? Your boat a fixed or swing keel?

I don't want to armchair quarterback, but did you try sheeting in the main and letting go the jib? Are you sure it was 'lee helm' or just your boat being overpowered/pushed off by the wind and waves because she was stalled? Your main should have been able to pull you up into the wind, given the chance.

[Seeking Solace]

I was with you right up until you went forward to release the jib. That was a very dangerous risk as the sheet could have pulled you overboard and also beat the living snot out of you. If you were able to get into irons you could have just waited until the wind died enough to do things safely.

I was caught in a storm and had a roller furling that was wound so tight it wouldn't roll all the way up. While trying to get it rolled up the sheet pulled the stopper knot out and through the block (I didn't even think this was possible). That sheet whipped out 30 feet in front and then 30 feet back into me about five times before I could get it under control and wrap it around the furling. It was a hard lesson learned and it was still stinging hours later. I quickly realized that I was lucky to only have been whipped up on.

If you were unable to get into the wind at 4+ knots of speed irons is your only option. The main is where 80% of knockdown power will come from while the jib is producing mostly lift and pull. Each boat design is different where it likes to sail the fastest. Mine seems to really like being close hauled or reached, but falls on it's face in downwind sailing (odd, but true).

It's rare not to have any warning signs that the wind is shifting and changing. Sailing along the edge of storms is usually where you find that type of inflow or outflow and as soon as you know that there is potential for danger you had best be reefing the sails. It's better reef often and early than to be caught in heavy winds with too much sail up.

I've never been knocked down, although I've had the rails in the water sailing fast. I'm curious what some of the other guys have done when in an overpower situation that they couldn't get a sail down or rolled up.

[Paul Elliott]

Ultimately, you did what you needed to do: release the pressure on the jib and head into the wind. When it starts to get out of control, don't worry about the jib flogging, just release the sheet as much as you need to, head up, and drop the sail. (Or roller-furl the sail, but it sounds like you have a hanked-on headsail.) As you found out, once the pressure is off the jib then you can head to wind and reef or drop the main. The sails will flog, and this isn't fun or easy on the sails if the flogging continues for a long time, but there's not much else to be done.

Sometimes you can also run downwind, which will reduce the apparent wind and often calm the boats motion. On a deep run, you can let the main blanket the jib and the jib can be lowered more easily.

Either approach depends on the boat and the conditions. You should practice, but of course what is easy in normal conditions can become nearly impossible in rough weather.

[maxingout]

It's a good idea to practice stopping the boat on a dime because someday a person may fall overboard.

When we sail offshore, we practice emergency stopping of the boat for man overboard.

We simply release all our sheets and that does the trick for us.

If we release the genoa, the weather helm generated by the mainsail will round us up into the wind as well.

Your experience of being overpowered by the wind means it's time to practice boat stopping maneuvers.

[Sailmonkey]

you can run really deep and blanket the jib under the main and then drop it while running. Once that's done, round up and either sail with the main alone, reef the main and continue sailing, or drop the main.

[leboyd]

I'm not an expert either, but I learned an interested bit of sailing knowledge while practicing MOB tacking and jiving on a catamaran. The jib and main can help you turn a boat - or in your case, not help you. It seems maybe as Paul Elliot kind of pointed out, the problem was the jib. If you think about the boat, long and narrow, and the two sails pulling it along, everything is great. Until you get the surprise you mention. Now you have too much wind on too much sail area. As you think about the boat, you're trying to turn into the wind - but the jib is actually keep you from turning. Releasing the main removes a lot of the knock-down forces, but increases the problem of turning into the wind. If you released the jib, and not the main, the main will help you turn into the wind.

I'm interested in what the real expert say.

[thomm225]

Other good practice would be to lock the tiller in the center and steer with the sails only like small sailboat racers do on the start line. (at almost a standstill, or stopped completely)

It will teach you everything you need to know to stop your boat or to head upwind in heavy wind, off the wind, etc.

[MarkSF]

I do it the other way around (main then jib) if the increase in wind speed isn't too drastic.

Ease the main right out.
Sail on the jib only, probably on a close reach (won't go much higher on jib only). Boat should now be fairly happy. Amount of canvas effectively halved.
Reef the main down
Then sheet the main back in, and then head down, shroud the jib with the main, and then deal with the jib. Furl it partially, typically.

With this procedure you aren't trying to furl or take down a desperately flogging jib.

Your situation is why I don't like sailing with large jibs. My summer one is 83%. If the wind gets up suddenly, I can sail on that alone while reefing the main, in up to 35 kts.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Sometimes you can also run downwind, which will reduce the apparent wind and often calm the boats motion. On a deep run, you can let the main blanket the jib and the jib can be lowered more easily.
r.

There are many ways, to depower an overpowered sail. You should study and practice them.

But this - head off, not up -- is the best instantaneous, fool proof, go-to maneuver, for most cases. Just be careful not to get into an accidental gybe, but even a deep broad reach should calm everything way down and give you a chance to get some sail down.

If you have good sails, you can usually flatten the main and "put it to sleep". Then ease it a bit and feather it.

I agree with others who said that you were probably not experiencing lee helm.

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by atmartin

You were on lake, a large one? What was the sea state? Your boat a fixed or swing keel? Yes... we were on a lake. 2 miles by 10 miles, and the seas were pretty flat at the beginning... rose to about 2 foot waves. We have a centerboard.

I don't want to armchair quarterback, but did you try sheeting in the main and letting go the jib?no.. didn't try that

Are you sure it was 'lee helm' or just your boat being overpowered/pushed off by the wind and waves because she was stalled? Your main should have been able to pull you up into the wind, given the chance.I don't have enough experience to know the difference.

My answers are imbedded above in Red

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

you can run really deep and blanket the jib under the main and then drop it while running. Once that's done, round up and either sail with the main alone, reef the main and continue sailing, or drop the main.

I thought about doing that, but have never "blanketed the jib" on purpose. I'll make a note of practicing that the next time we go out.

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by MarkSF

I do it the other way around (main then jib) if the increase in wind speed isn't too drastic.

Ease the main right out.
Sail on the jib only, probably on a close reach (won't go much higher on jib only). Boat should now be fairly happy. Amount of canvas effectively halved.
Reef the main down
Then sheet the main back in, and then head down, shroud the jib with the main, and then deal with the jib. Furl it partially, typically.

so you reef the main, while it is out? I'm not sure how you would do that since the boom is out over the water. you wouldn't be able to reach the reefing point... right? and wouldn't it still be under load? can you explain further?

[Stu Jackson]

You could rig a jib downhaul, too.

Rigging a small sailboat, from Pat Royce's Sailing Illustrated. Great little book.

Do you live near where you sail? If not being surprised is understandable. If, however, you do live there, should you not be aware of afternoon local weather patterns?

Once the main is let out and you are sailing a close reach the luff of the main is, well, luffing and sail can be reduced. Helps if you are on starboard tack so you have access to the clew line, which on most small boats is on the starboard side of the boom. If not then you can still let the main halyard down and reduce sail area, even if the clew remains unattached. Then take your time and reach under the boom as you center it from way outside the boat.

Good luck. In a short amount of time, you will look back on this adventure as a great learning experience, which is exactly what it was. BTDT.

[Jim Cate]

Scarlet, I'll add my recommendation to dump the jib sheet if the boat will not come head to wind. It will flog like hell until you get it down,but you will be able to steer.

And o n a small boat where going forward is fraught with peril (!), you might consider rigging a jib downhaul. This would be a small line (say 1/4 inch or 6 mm) attached to the head of the sail and lead down through a few hanks to a block at the tack, and then back to the cockpit. With this simple kit, you can drag the sail down under most any conditions. It may not be tidy, but you can quickly depower your rig when needed and then tidy up after control is regained.

Jim

Edit: Stu, you must type faster than I do!