Jordan Series Drogue experience

[pacifica]

I used my sheet winches without jamming the cones, but not the self tailer mechanism.
"Conventional wisdom" seems to be at least partly composed of speculation by folks who perhaps haven't had the opportunity to try thw JSD.
On review ,it was suggested that it was 'not much harder' to recover a JSD vs. ending the hove-to position, but I can stand to be corrected. It isn't the MAIN point.
I am guessing that it might be quite a bit more difficult to recover a JSD in a larger boat ( mine is a 36' monohull). But I have no experience with JSD's in larger boats, so I remain quite ignorant in that regard.

My opinion, which is worth next to nothing, is that larger boats are much less likely to need passive heavy weather techniques, and they can probably keep sailing longer and in worse conditions. Right?

[pacifica]

I would really like to hear about any experience with a JSD in a small multihull, like an F27 tri.
Especially , how many cones? On brief inspection of the JSD specs it looks like the minimum multihull displacement listed is 6k lbs. The F27 is about 3500 lbs I think.
I'm planning a 'change of tack' from one hull and two keels to 3 hulls and no keels; from 21,000 lbs to 3,500 lbs; and from carrying the kitchen sink and the tools to make a new one, to only carrying a toothbrush with a shortened handle to save weight.

It strikes me that a JSD in such a vessel could be really useful,and not infrequently. Who knows? (literally)

[RainDog]

Originally Posted by pacifica

"Conventional wisdom" seems to be at least partly composed of speculation by folks who perhaps haven't had the opportunity to try thw JSD.

That is always the case, but in this case it is also based on years of reports from people using them.

How long does it take you to recover your JSD with your sheet winch? In what winds?

[pacifica]

20 minutes in 20 knots. No experience with retrieval in stronger winds

[mikereed100]

Originally Posted by RainDog

That certainly flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

That was one of the things that surprised me most during our experience; just how easy the JSD was to retrieve. To be fair, the conditions were fairly benign, but it really was not difficult.

In terms of resistance, a JSD lies somewhere between a parachute anchor and conventional drogues, so it stands to reason that they should be more difficult to retrieve than a drogue, if retrieved in the same manner as a drogue. But, if you find that the JSD is difficult to retrieve over the stern, why not retrieve it over the bow with the help of the engine(s), as with a parachute?

[RainDog]

We have a small boat like Pacifica, so I am hoping it will be easy for us too.

I do think the JSD is for sure the way to go for passive techniques, at least on a boat like ours, so will for sure add one if possible before crossing an ocean.

[Orchidius]

I just so happen to be in the process of constructing my own JDS, maybe it is of interest to somebody.

I'm not using a kit, but bought fabric online from a good source. It's ripstop nylon, 175g/m. A fairly light fabric, much comparable to a spinnaker. The edges are double hemmed, both ends. The strips to attach the cones to the rope are made from the same ripstop material, folded 3 times and stitched before stitching to the cones.













The bridles and the leader will be double braid nylon, the rest dyneema. I need 116 cones for my boat, but I'm making close to 150 cones so frayed or damaged ones can easily be replaced. This can simply NOT be seen as single use in my opinion. If you run into shaky weather in the first week of a 30-day passage odds are it might happen again...

[Moonos]

What an excellent thread!

In my persuit of understanding all there is about sailing, this little device has filled a large knowledge gap as to what to do in gale force conditions when it just gets too big.

While I'm still dockside, that won't be forever. Just lining my ducks up.

Any comments how a JSD would effect this little adventure

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ETir8OEdDrc

?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Moonos

What an excellent thread!

In my persuit of understanding all there is about sailing, this little device has filled a large knowledge gap as to what to do in gale force conditions when it just gets too big.

While I'm still dockside, that won't be forever. Just lining my ducks up.

Any comments how a JSD would effect this little adventure

?

It would have made things worse. The breaking waves were due to a bar and were limited to the area over the bar. A JSD would have been dragging on the bottom, perhaps snagging projections which would have slowed or stopped the boat increasing the force of waves hitting the transoms.

Unless there was an injury aboard severe enough to require immediate attention, there was no reason to cross the bar. They should have waited outside.

[Moonos]

Originally Posted by Adelie

A JSD would have been dragging on the bottom, perhaps snagging projections which would have slowed or stopped the boat increasing the force of waves hitting the transoms.

Good point about the JSD hitting the bottom and possibly snagging. I didn't consider that, but that would be a very bad situation

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by Moonos

Good point about the JSD hitting the bottom and possibly snagging. I didn't consider that, but that would be a very bad situation

That is my thinking as well, but a standard smaller drogue might have been an improvement. it would have improved the directional stability, especially in that first moment when the bow started to yaw under the impact of the wave.

On the other hand, once the boat was past the first wave impact, the acceleration of a multihull enabled it to stay ahead of the wave train.

[Moonos]

Originally Posted by Talbot

That is my thinking as well, but a standard smaller drogue might have been an improvement. it would have improved the directional stability, especially in that first moment when the bow started to yaw under the impact of the wave.

On the other hand, once the boat was past the first wave impact, the acceleration of a multihull enabled it to stay ahead of the wave train.

Perhaps use engine under bare poles with small drogue. Kinda like going down a steep hill in an automatic 4wd. Engage low range and hand-break a few clicks rather than foot break. Drive down with small throttle keeping the torque converter engaged. Getting way off topic now though.

When I get my cat I will try a drogue in smaller conditions so I am confident there will be no pribs when it really matters.

[JPA Cate]

Ordhidius,

Good job, man. With the cones carefully finished, they will be less likely to fray, and good on you for making up some spares, too. Good plan.

Ann

[englishseadog]

Originally Posted by acesails

Hi All,

Sorry have not read much of this , but

Jordan Series Drogue is a registered trademark belonging to Ace Sailmakers, East Lyme, CT. Describes this revolutionary storm survival device as designed and built by Ace Sailmakers.

I named it after the late, great Don Jordan.

I was greater friends with Don, met with him many times. All his work with us and his website JordanSeriesDrogue.com was free or paid by him, or now his family, to help sailors.

Never heard him say the drogue was good for one use, he described it as a piece of equipment that can not fail.

That is why we are using 4.1 oz Fabric with large hem.

Thank you,

Dave Pelissier

As I recall, it was the public that called it the Jordan Series Drogue, not Ace Sails. It was only after Don Jordan's death that Ace moved to register JSD as their trademark. This trademark registration is only valid in the USA and nowhere else in the world.

Don's wish was for the series drogue to be affordable and available to everyone and for that reason he never registered any intellectual property. He would not be pleased to think that one commercial operator sought to frustrate his vision.

As for the website jordanseriesdrogue.com, this appears to have been hi-jacked by Ace for their own ends.

[CarinaPDX]

englishseadog- I gotta agree with you. It is one thing to sell mini-drogues with reference to Donald Jordan's name as the designer, but to claim a trademark of a deceased individual's name is pretty low. Don was not just the designer, but quite the evangelist; it is not at all honoring his contribution to restrict the use of his name in regard to the mini-drogues.

Greg