Can a ship tow a sail boat?

[Paws-on-Paws]

Isnt this simply about max hull speed through the water rather than fixed point for the tow line? As cruising yachts wont go to plane, the speed in excess of hull speed through the water will force the yacht under (as it cant go up...)
Cheers

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by Paws-on-Paws

Isnt this simply about max hull speed through the water rather than fixed point for the tow line? As cruising yachts wont go to plane, the speed in excess of hull speed through the water will force the yacht under (as it cant go up...)
Cheers

I suggest you watch the OP video and re-evaluate your assumptions

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Paws-on-Paws

Isnt this simply about max hull speed through the water rather than fixed point for the tow line? As cruising yachts wont go to plane, the speed in excess of hull speed through the water will force the yacht under (as it cant go up...)
Cheers

I'm curious about this assumption, too. You can plane a rock (I assume everyone has skipped a stone in their life), so why can't you plane a displacement hull? Assuming you could put enough horsepower into it, the line doesn't part and the boat holds together, you could skip it across the water like a rock.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I'm curious about this assumption, too. You can plane a rock (I assume everyone has skipped a stone in their life), so why can't you plane a displacement hull? Assuming you could put enough horsepower into it, the line doesn't part and the boat holds together, you could skip it across the water like a rock.

Only flat rocks skip, round ones not so much.

The Plank on Edge design caused by an old racing rule shows the extreme of a boat that isn't going to plane.

[Don C L]

Many moons ago I recall a discussion of this, that the resistance of a displacement hull, going too fast, generates so much drag that it then generates a good deal of loss of buoyancy. I recall some hypothesized that this could explain the loss of certain sailing ships that did not reef early enough. Sorry can’t find the source yet... I’ll keep looking... anyone else heard of this?

[donradcliffe]

Years ago, I got a tow 30 miles into Marina del Rey on a dismasted Olson 30. They gave us a long tow hawser and bridle which we put around the primary winches. They told me they were in a hurry to get back, so to tell them if they were going too fast. Winds wer light and seas were small, so pretty soon were doing 14 knots. The towing hawser was not tight enough to stay out of the water. Steering was quite responsive, but I didn't try any wake jumping...

[skipperpete]

The OP video clearly shows the steel sailboat under tow by the ship in fairly calm seas. It seems by the size of the bow wave that the tow is fairly fast and eventually/inevitably the towline detaches and the sailboat is left behind.
Regarding the hull speed discussion, I had a Dufour 42 with an unfortunate choice of engine horsepower relative to boat size and she would easily run up to 12 knots but the stern would bury to almost the deck level and steering was very uncomfortable.
We also had a 40' ferro cement boat sailboat in our marina that had a 3208 caterpillar and appropriately sized propeller and it also could exceed 12 knots but the endurance was very limited due to fuel capacity.
Maybe there should be a split in the thread about the circumstances that allow/require a Mayday call to be transmitted.It is my understanding that " imminent or immediate loss of lives" is a primary requirement, with a Pan call for less perilous situations. The area of this particular Mayday call is very close to the equator, surrounded in almost every direction by islands and land mass and very heavily trafficked by tugs towing barges, fishing boats and vessels supporting the drill rigs on the Kalimantan coast. Also the seas are more often than not, quite calm. The crew of the yacht seemed to be in good health and able to scale the ships boarding ladder unassisted with the only life threatening issue being the lack of drinking water. If the boat was perilously close to sinking, surely the substantial dinghy would have been launched and if the sterntube leak was of major concern, in that calm sea a dive to put something.... plastic, string ....anything ....around the shaft and against the stern bearing to either stop the leak from outside or at least slow it down.
Of course without knowing all the details leading up to this rescue my post is only speculation based on the video.

[Dignity too]

Originally Posted by ericoh88

My friend who left Langkawi for Bali/Indonesia and his boat got into trouble after Batam. He and his best friend had been hand pumping for days and ran out of drinking water. Called for help and was picked up by a container ship.

I felt sorry for his loss. I was on his boat when he install the new solar panels. Boat was found later - obviously stripped clean.

Is there really a way for a ship doing 14kts to tow a sailing yacht ?
What do you think?

Eric

yes it can tow a sail boat but it would be at the sailboats hull speed which would cause massive delays to the ship having to go so slow, so not practical.

[justwaiting]

From an industry point of view;

Towage and Salvage
Towage

Towage is a service by which a vessel is assisted in its movements on or through the water, by another vessel, which is usually operating under the specific terms and conditions of a Towage Contract. This contract is based on an agreed amount of remuneration which is usually much lower than what could be expected in the case of a salvage claim decided on by a Court. The majority of tug owners operating in the field of coastal and deep sea towage normally utilise their own particular form of towage contract which will include, apart from the main terms such as price, payment details, free time and demurrage, a section to cover general towage conditions which basically define the insurance and liability aspects. As discussed in section one unless your vessel is a purpose built tug due consideration should be given to attempting any towing operation.

Salvage

Salvage is covered under Australian Federal Law - Navigation Act 1912, sections 3l5-329c.

The basic principle of salvage is that when a person or persons save or help to save a vessel and/or her cargo from a danger, then the successful salvor is entitled to a reward provided that:


• The property must be exposed to an imminent marine peril and would have been lost without the salvors efforts.

• The salvor must have no pre-existing covenant with the vessel involved and the danger must be real.

• The salvor must act voluntarily.

• The services must be successful in saving or helping to save the property at risk.

It is most important not to confuse salvage with your statutory obligations to render assistance to a vessel in distress or in the case of a collision. In salvage your services are voluntary and offered toward property as opposed to saving human life.

Before the Master of a vessel engages in salvage he should consider the following factors, amongst others.

a) The Master should ensure that he does not endanger his own vessel or his crew in the subsequent operation.

b) The Master should be totally satisfied that his endeavours will lead to success.

c) The Master should advise his vessel’s owners of his intention to salvage.

d) The Master should establish that the operation does not invalidate the insurance of his vessel.

e) The Master should inform his charterers and check for the “Deviation Clause” in his Charter party or Bills of Lading.

f) Remember you are responsible for, and could be sued for, any damage that you cause to the vessel during salvage attempts


Many salvage agreements can be made between the salvor and the vessel being salvaged. The salvor can bargain for the reward beforehand but it is not necessary/prudent to do so as it is very difficult to correctly estimate the amount of effort that may have to be put in to effect success. Therefore salvage agreements are usually “OPEN” which means that a specific amount is not fixed but will be decided by arbitration.

The form of agreement most commonly employed nowadays is the Lloyd’s Standard Form of Salvage Agreement, the latest version was introduced in May 1980 and is known as The Lloyd’s Open Form 1980 or “LOF 80”.

RESPONSIBILITIES OF A MASTER

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by cal40john

Only flat rocks skip, round ones not so much.

The Plank on Edge design caused by an old racing rule shows the extreme of a boat that isn't going to plane.

Round rocks skip if they're going fast enough. And that boat will plane on its side.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by mowerandy

Last time I was surfing a waveface in my 6.5 tonne sloop (well beyond hullspeed at 13.5 knots) she did not appear to immediately capsize - I would have noticed this!

You weren't being towed.

[Don C L]

After my own experience I thought it would be another good reason to have a very beefy fitting at the waterline on the bow for both anchoring and towing. No cleat, and no chock or hawsehole. Having the line down low helps hold the bow up too I think, which is what it needs. That boat was being towed too fast for its size. It appears the line parted at the boat due to chafe.

[Valmika]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Why did they abandon the boat? It apparently wasn’t sinking?
You’ll never plane a displacement hull, but if you pull it fast enough you’ll likely submerge it or pull it in two.

No engine and broken rudder and leaking from around rudder tube. They had been hand pumping for days and were out of fresh water.

[Souzag818]

I just don't get it... I'd be doing everything I could to stem the flow, whatever it takes... Unless the rudder is gone, there's gotta be some way to make it steer. Looked like full keel boat, when it was rolling around. They track better than a fin keel... I'd be cracking open every can of corn or green beans or whatever I had, and drinking the water... Unless they were mentally exhausted, which is possible, seemed hasty to abandon a sailboat, floating on it's lines, rig standing, calm water... Especially when the OP said the boat was found later stripped. Obviously didn't sink...

[Lodesman]

Good reference to have; chap 10 is all about towing: http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/253768.pdf