Always use a snubber or your boat could end up like...

[a64pilot]

I’ve known from the beginning to not use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor, but can’t determine a logical reason. Only thing I can figure is you don’t say don’t do it, some fool will try to use it to pull up to the anchor in storm conditions.
Anyway in usual light wind conditions, I pull the chain tight and stop, boat begins to move, then pull the chain tight again, boat moves faster. So it’s the weight of the chain that is really moving the boat.
Of course that won’t work in 30 kt winds, but I’m not normally pulling anchor then either.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I’ve known from the beginning to not use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor, but can’t determine a logical reason. Only thing I can figure is you don’t say don’t do it, some fool will try to use it to pull up to the anchor in storm conditions.
Anyway in usual light wind conditions, I pull the chain tight and stop, boat begins to move, then pull the chain tight again, boat moves faster. So it’s the weight of the chain that is really moving the boat.
Of course that won’t work in 30 kt winds, but I’m not normally pulling anchor then either.

We do much the same, 64, and have done so for years as well. IMO, it is pretty easy to tell if the windlass is struggling, or even at a normal but heavy load, just by listening to it. If it should sound like it is struggling whilst pulling the boat up, we engage idle forward to ease the burden.

In typical conditions, my first step in weighing anchor is to take out the slack made by the snubber. If the chain hook doesn't fall off on its own when unloaded, I'll manually pull some slack in teh chain and suddenly release it, and that usually gets the hook off. My point is that even in 15-20 knots, I can pull the boat forward against the wind load, and I'm a feeble old fart. If my 1500 lb rated windlass can't deal with that stress without harm... well, I just dunno!

So, I've happily disobeyed orders for a long time without issue. I sure hope that the CF windlass police don't notice!

Jim

[carstenb]

well you all now have me terribly confused. We use what we have always called a "snubber". This is a 1 1/4 inch nylon bridle about 5 meters long (it is made by Mantus).

We use this to take all load off our capstan and to provide a stretchy line to cushion any further loads that might result from heavy winds/swells.

Now if what we'e doing is wrong - I'd darn sure like to know what is wrong with it.

We do not use a chain lock since our "snubber" does this job for us.

[dfelsent]

I’m on the same page as A64 and jpacate here. Bring in the slack. Wait. Bring it in. Wait. And so on.
That’s my normal routine.
Big wind? Stay put or use the iron Jenny to sneak up. Usually no rush to pull the hook.

[Mike OReilly]

We also use our windlass to bring our boat up to the anchor when conditions are reasonable. Hauling in the first section which is on snubbers is always easy. Then do as others say; haul in till rode is taut, then let catenery move the boat. Within a few cycles the boat has gathered some steam and inertia keeps it moving.

With our manual windlass it is easy to feel the forces at play, and know when it’s time to call on the engine for assist.

carstenb, my snubbers take the load all the time, but I engage the chain hook as a secondary backup should the bridle fail (it never has). I also use the hook when setting and digging in the anchor.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by carstenb

well you all now have me terribly confused. We use what we have always called a "snubber". This is a 1 1/4 inch nylon bridle about 5 meters long (it is made by Mantus).



We use this to take all load off our capstan and to provide a stretchy line to cushion any further loads that might result from heavy winds/swells.



Now if what we'e doing is wrong - I'd darn sure like to know what is wrong with it.



We do not use a chain lock since our "snubber" does this job for us.

Now this is my opinion so take it as that.
But of course your not doing anything wrong, it’s worked hasn’t it?
However I get a more comfortable ride of you will with about 40’ of single much smaller line, about 9/16”. I take it back to my midships cleat to keep it out of the water mostly, I run it over my bow roller. The thin line lasts maybe a couple of months before it needs replacing. Think of it as a consumable item like fuel.
This is not a storm snubber

Then I have a dual 5/8” 40’ snubber that I will attach to both bow cleats if the weather is going to be real bad. I may take that to dual 3/4” now that I have plenty on board.

However an 1 and 1/4 inch inch line is I think for severe storms, I’m not sure an average cruising boat is going to stretch that much?

[Mr B]

Ive never used a snubber on any boat Ive driven or sailed in over 50 years,
Ive never had a windlass either,
I never anchor in over 20 feet of water,
I do however, always have a minimum 100 feet of either chain or rope out,
This allows the boat to rise up and float over the waves taking any shock loading out of my anchor or rode,
The weight and length of the chain and rope always keep the chain or rope tight, But not tite enough to make it give the mounting point a sudden jolt,

Retrieving my anchor is done on the motor and pulling the chain or anchor in by hand as the boat moves slowly forwards,

The only time my anchor has dragged after setting it in reverse with the motor, has been on a short chain with other boats close by,
And in a river with a tide change and a rock got caught in the Danforth clevis pin, also with other boats close by on a short chain,
Port Phillip Bay, You can have any amount of chain and rode out, There are no boats close by,

[Knotical]

I watched the video, horrible news.

As some posters suggested, why wouldn't someone else go out and help prevent his boat from going aground? There seem to be plenty of boats in the area and busy ferry traffic, surely someone would have noticed.

[Barbaria]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

You should never leave the chain on the windlass, even in calm weather. If you don't want to end up like the boat in the OP.

Roger that!
My main windlass relay malfunctioned while at anchor and started the winch automatically, with the chain on the windlass. The on/off switch on the panel was off. Luckily I was onboard having dinner. When I finally manage to stop it, the anchor was in the waterline...

Had I been onshore the boat would have driven off.

All is ok until it happens, better to be prepared.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

well you all now have me terribly confused. We use what we have always called a "snubber". This is a 1 1/4 inch nylon bridle about 5 meters long (it is made by Mantus).

We use this to take all load off our capstan and to provide a stretchy line to cushion any further loads that might result from heavy winds/swells.

Now if what we'e doing is wrong - I'd darn sure like to know what is wrong with it.

We do not use a chain lock since our "snubber" does this job for us.

What about when you're backing down on the anchor? You shouldn't subject the windlass to that, either.


The windlass is intended just for raising and lowering the anchor; it's not designed for other loads.



Snubbers are designed to be stretchy and are less strong than the rest of the ground tackle. Because they stretch, they are subject to chafe and wear and failure -- they are consumables. So the snubber is not a good thing to relay on as the ONLY CONNECTION of your boat to the anchor. You need to make off the chain in a way which is as strong as the chain, otherwise what is the point of the strength of the chain? The snubber is just for shock absorption.


I used a chain lock on my previous boat; on the current boat we use a stainless steel belaying strop with a hook -- Carsten has seen it.

[Bullshooter]

I think some are still confusing the 2 meanings of snubber, it would be nice if we could stick to chain stopper vs. snubber, but carry on...

Someone noted that contrary to the description of the cause, there was still chain showing over the bow roller. But, since it is NOT worth watching the whole video, I suggest fast forwarding to the key parts (5:30-7:42 minutes is the description of how it happened). You're welcome Haha.

If you look at 4:17 you see that there is no chain showing at the bow roller, when they drive up to look at the boat, only a line coming off the starboard bow. It is later, during prep for the salvage, that lines are attached, see 8:21-8:29. This is consistent with the anchor chain being separated from the boat.

[Eder]

Its bad luck and poor technique that the boat grounded, but the salvage company destroyed that thing.


I like to use my chain stopper to initially set the anchor then I add a single or double snubber...length depending on how timid I feel. I have had a snubber chafe thru in the Tuamotus and the chain stopper proved to be great back up.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What about when you're backing down on the anchor? You shouldn't subject the windlass to that, either.

The windlass is intended just for raising and lowering the anchor; it's not designed for other loads.

While quite accurate, I think the risk there is simply more windlass repairs than normal, as long as it can hold the chain during the set process.
Conversely, the risk of failing to belay the rode is a destroyed boat.
Not really the same advice-category, IMO.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Eder

Its bad luck and poor technique that the boat grounded, but the salvage company destroyed that thing.

I believe that’s not at all uncommon, the priority is remove the boat so the Environment isn’t damaged, and very often the salvage bill exceeds the value of the boat.
I believe the salvage companies are primarily paid by Insurence, I believe my policy is 1 Mil for Environmental clean up, but I may be wrong.

I believe by the time most boats are salvaged, it’s pretty much a write off.

I also believe if your “hard aground” and have paid Seatow or Boat US towing Insurence and of course are in the US, they are still filing a salvage claim.
However I’ve not heard what defines hard aground either.

[Belezar]

I have never been on a charter in the Caribbean when they didn’t instruct you to use a snubber, even there wasn’t one on board. Sometimes that’s the only thing I was told.