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Old 04-12-2022, 06:55   #1
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Newbie sailor here

Good morning all and just signed up here. I just bought my first sailboat a Westsail 32 factory build and will be moving full time in the spring. A few updates and I'm good. Anyway looking forward to learning from everyone here and I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Cheers to all
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Old 04-12-2022, 21:44   #2
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Welcome to the forum.
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Old 05-12-2022, 11:25   #3
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Welcome aboard CF, Little Dixie.

Thanks for the holiday greetings, and back at you.

Fair winds, hope you get out on the water soon.

Ann
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:24   #4
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Welcome to CF!
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Old 08-12-2022, 16:30   #5
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Thank you all for the welcome, makes a newbie feel right at home
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Old 08-12-2022, 16:45   #6
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Welcome!

Fair Winds & Following Seas from SV Mischievous Mermaid!

Shannon & Dee
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Old 09-12-2022, 08:35   #7
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Welcome!

Your "Wet Snail" 32 is sort of a quirky boat that has a loyal cult following and lots of character. I guess what that means is it is able to take a severe pounding but doesn't go to windward very well, or anywhere else very fast. But it will make a good sailor out of you, and you will learn a lot from her and have a lot of fun doing it. Many of these boats have circumnavigated and while they aren't so handy for day sailing, they are good ocean cruisers. There were many times when I was looking for a boat and would have snapped one of those up quite eagerly. There is just something about them that draws me. I would really like to see this design upsized into the 42 to 50 foot range. What a delightful tub that would be!

I think it is a really salty looking boat. I guess that's why I like it so much. They are pretty roomy down below, too. Resist the temptation to overload her with all that space, or you will find out where the "wet" in "WetSnail" comes from. I am told that an inch and a half difference in draft can turn the reasonably dry cockpit into a very wet one.

What engine?

Take good care of that diesel! You will be needing it to take care of you, sooner or later. Probably sooner. I can't imagine a beginner sailing out from a slip, much less returning, in that boat.
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Old 09-12-2022, 08:42   #8
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Re: Newbie sailor here

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
I would really like to see this design upsized into the 42 to 50 foot range. What a delightful tub that would be!

Uhhh...Westsail 42/43?
https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/westsail-43
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Old 09-12-2022, 12:09   #9
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Thanks for the reply GrowleyMonster I agree with ya 100%. the engine is a Yanmar 3JH2E 38 HP. she will be getting a Beta 38. I am a sucker for that salty look and I was in no way gonna settle for anything less and had to be a factory build. I am absolutely stoked about being able to make my dream come true. I know it"s a learning curve but we all atarted off the same lol. I want to do this right with and the W32 was my only choice to live my retirement out.
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Old 09-12-2022, 13:33   #10
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Re: Newbie sailor here

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Bingo! Never seen that one.
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Old 09-12-2022, 13:39   #11
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Don't let folks tell you the WestSail 32 is a slug. It is not. It is not fast, it has a bath tub hull and is very heavy, but it makes up for that by having oodles of sail area.

For comparison, per PHRF ratings the Contessa 32 is about 8nm/d faster, the Pacific Seacraft 31 is 1.5nm/d faster, The C&C Corvette (31.2') is 5nm/d and the Bristol 32 is about 4 (CB) or 5nm/d (FK) slower, the Coronado 32 is 4nm slower.

If the head stay still takes hank-on sails, get the biggest drifter you can for it, an overlength spinpole and you will do fine even in relatively light air.

If it is roller furling, then put a relatively light genoa on the head stay and roller-reef a early going upwind, it won't be as fast as the drifter but not a lot slower. On a beam reach or lower you can use a cruising chute or an asymmetrical which will be a little faster than the drifter and somewhat faster than the genoa.

If you have money to burn get a CodeZero on a roller set ahead of the headstay which will be at least as fast as anything else except the drifter and that only when sailing close hauled. I don't believe most CodeZeros can sail close hauled.
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Old 09-12-2022, 17:21   #12
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Thanks Adelie and I know it's not fast but I really wanted one because of it's reputation. I'm a fan of the build quality and those old school salty lines. She'll be my home as I'm downsizing and any input you can give is always much appreciated. I just retired from the RR as a conductor and I;ve seen and had enough so here I go. Hank on is still there and I will take your advice and get the biggest. Any thing else you can think please by all means hit me up. I am glad I landed here as the help and camaraderie has been the best
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Old 09-12-2022, 17:47   #13
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Re: Newbie sailor here

What's the long term plan? Stay in the US or go further afield? This impacts dinghy and motor choice.

Also impacts the question of autopilot or windvane selfsteering.

Do you already know how to sail or are you just learning that part? The WS is probably not the best learning platform.

What are your expectations for fridge, freezer, AC, watermaker, clothes washing?
This affects you electrical system design.
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Old 09-12-2022, 19:19   #14
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Adelie plan is to head south and stay around Bahamas, Bimini area. It's just me so I have many options. She comes with Achilles LEX-88 Dinghy and a 5hp Tohatsu outboard thats 2 years old. Has a Raymarine Autopilot (your thoughts?). Yes I am learning but with help I'm cool I believe in doing it right the first time. Had a coworker who has been a ton of help. Now I'm looking at a Spectra Watermaker (200T if I remember) and I hear good things about CoolBlue Refridge units. As far as clothes go lol well a bucket works fine for me, gonna keep things simple but has to be dependable. She has 2 135 watt panels that will be updated. Also came with VHS/AIS reciever AIS transponder send and receive. List goes on and on. Needs some TLC but so do I lol. All solid just do the bottom but I won't cut corners. Any other things I'm missing please reach out and give me your input and thoughts
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Old 09-12-2022, 22:59   #15
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Re: Newbie sailor here

Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE DIXIE View Post
Adelie plan is to head south and stay around Bahamas, Bimini area. It's just me so I have many options.

a. She comes with Achilles LEX-88 Dinghy and a 5hp Tohatsu outboard thats 2 years old.

b. Has a Raymarine Autopilot (your thoughts?).

c. Yes I am learning but with help I'm cool I believe in doing it right the first time. Had a coworker who has been a ton of help.

d. Now I'm looking at a Spectra Watermaker (200T if I remember) and

e. I hear good things about CoolBlue Refridge units.

f. As far as clothes go lol well a bucket works fine for me, gonna keep things simple but has to be dependable.

g. She has 2 135 watt panels that will be updated.

h. Also came with VHS/AIS reciever AIS transponder send and receive. List goes on and on. Needs some TLC but so do I lol. All solid just do the bottom but I won't cut corners. Any other things I'm missing please reach out and give me your input and thoughts
A. For a single person that dinghy and engine probably is fine. The issue is whether you expect to be able to plane or not with a load. Generally I would expect you to anchor near reprovisioning spots and points of interest but you may want to make forays away from there for diving or a picnic guest. Past a certain distance/trip time, unique to every person, cruisers want to plane. Small dinghies plod along at about 3kt unless they can plane in which case it's 10-18kt. There pretty much is no speed in between, you get a very marginal speed increase for a massive increase in power and fuel consumption, basically you are plowing the sea. Once on a plane you can throttle back. If you don't have enough power to plane, then don't try. The dinghy is light, but the engine is small. My guess is that it can plane with you and a moderate load. Test out the dinghy and see. If you can get on a plane, how big a load can you get on a plane? You will want to know this when going to afield to reprovision. Test it now. If you have trouble getting on a plane, there are several things that you can do to help.
1. Get a tiller extension and move yourself forward when trying to get up.
2. 3gal fuel tank with a hose long enough so it can be at the bow.
3. Flatter larger diameter prop. This will help you with the holeshot getting onto the plane but will cost you in max speed. If it's the difference between planing and not it worth the money. Also makes the dinghy motor more efficient if you try to use it to push the mothership. For that you would tie the dinghy on the mothership's hip or you would mount a dinghy bracket on the mothership. Even if you hope to never have to do this, it's good practice to test this out if the main engine breaks down.
4. Foils on the motor's cavitation plate.
Here's a link to the results of a survey on motors vs hp vs type of dinghy vs how many people. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3498738
The dinghy is an air-bottom so it will be a bit vulnerable to dragging over rocks. Consider getting some drop down wheels.
The engine you have is a 4-stroke, which is pretty much mandated by environmental regulations in the US, UK, Canada, Aus/NZ and EU. In the Bahamas I believe you can buy a 2-stroke. They leave oil in the water and get about 2/3 the fuel economy but they are more robust, easier to service and generally lighter. Given the proximity to the US you should have no problem finding mechanics that will service your 4-stroke, probably true for much of the Caribbean but no guarantees.

B. No opinions on the make/model of your autopilot but expect it to use about 50Ahr/d @ 12v. I would dedicate 150W or so of solar panels and about 150Ahr of battery capacity to that specific demand when designing the electrical system. Windvanes don't use power, tend to be much more reliable but cost a lot up front.

C. Are you learning to sail on a small boat or better yet dinghy or on your own boat? Sailing and cruising are 2 different things. Sailing is about trimming the sails, steering the boat, picking your course, rules of the road and picking up crew overboard. Cruising is that plus motoring, the head, electrical consumption, provisioning, cooking underway, longer range navigation, electronics, sleeping arrangements, port and customs clearances, .... Sailing is like learning to drive car, cruising is like driving a Class-A RV or semi-truck& trailer.
I would recommend a Laser to learn to sail. Easy to find, east to rig, sealed hull so won't swamp. Can resell for about what you paid. Buy one, sail it 3hr every other weekend for 6mo.
If you are learning to sail on your own boat or another large boat there is a tendency to get distracted with secondary systems rather than learning the sailing machine which is the most important part.

D. I have no opinion either way on that make/model of watermaker. From the maker specs it needs 1.2Ahr/gal produced. I would assume 1.5Ahr/gal because over time the membrane efficiency will decrease. That's still pretty good compared to a lot of water makers. If you produce 10gal/d I would have 45-60W of panels and and 30-40Ahr of battery capacity dedicated to this use. Keep in mind that the more water you use the more electricity you need to produce it. Even with a watermaker you want to keep water tankage on the boat, if the watermaker or electrical system fails you won't die of thirst. I would carry 2gal/person/day for the longest passage you make. You really only need 1gal/day/person but 2 gives you a reserve for a slow passage, or a ruptured tank, like say during the storm that killed the watermaker. Once underway on a passage I would slowly draw some water from the tanks to lighten the boat but I'd always maintain 15d worth. Unless you are heading across and ocean just maintain 30gal or so, and you should be fine.

E. I would count on using 35-50Ahr/d power needing 120-200W of panels and 100-150Ahr of batteries dedicated to their use.
1. I have no opinion on any fridge system except the Engels. Engels produces chest fridge/freezer units that apparently are very well regarded in the trucking industry. They also publish power consumption data which most makers don't. That data indicates makes their power consumption seem to be good or pretty good. I have no idea how well they last in a marine environment. There is a 3rd party market for various add-ons like insulating blankets and a drawer rack so it can be slid in and out of a cabinet. It probably really needs additional insulation. The Engels would cost 1/3-1/2 of what the CoolBlue system costs.
2. If you go with the CoolBlue you would need and want to do installation, you want to know your systems and how to maintain them yourself. That will let you beef up the insulation of your icebox, which you should, 4" minimum, 6" would be nice. I hear that the vacuum panels are much more efficient than foam but are not as durable. The CoolBlue has a holding plate so you can turn down the temp when there is an excess of power available such as near the end of charging with the engine and in the afternoon when the batteries are almost full and the panels are putting out more power than the batteries can take. Once the excess of power stops return the temp to normal and the fridge will coast for a while on thermal inertia.
3. Another option is to get a cheap dorm fridge or small apartment fridge and run it off of AC. To do that you would need a more solar panels and batteries to keep up which cost money but if you are saving $2k on the fridge would be worth it. Also you would need a big, 2kW inverter. If go this route you could spend more on solar and batteries up front and down the line when the fridge dies you can splurge on the marine fridge of your dreams.

F. Bucket and plunger are nice and cheap. Cut holes in the plunger, I hear it swirls the water better. I've heard that small amounts of ammonia work as a detergent. No personal opinion here on the plunger or the ammonia. Get a mangle, big water saver. After washing, run thru the mangle before rinsing, and mangle that water back into their respective buckets. After several pieces the rinse bucket becomes the wash bucket and you need to dump the old wash bucket which becomes the rinse bucket with a little new water. Here is a stainless example: https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Wis...a-599920542218

G. I would max out solar. I would keep what you have and buy more. If you run out of places for permanently mounted panels, get some flexible panel, epoxy or glue them to 1/4" or 3/6" plywood or PVC planks. These can be tossed out in open areas in calm weather as convenient.
1.Instead of one large controller I would put a small MPPT controller on each panel which will improve output in conditions which shade some of the panels which will be much of the time. At the very least put the panels one each side of the boat on their own controllers.
2. I would also go to Sam's Club or Costco or whatever you can find and buy as many golfcart FLA batteries as you can fit on the boat. Lots of "deep cycle" batteries are really hybrid or worse starting batteries with a "deep cycle' sticker plastered on them. If it says golfcart it is more likely to actually be a deepcycle battery, especially coming from a major retailer but even then no guarantees. The more batteries you have the longer you can last in cloudy conditions before you have to start the engine or a generator. And even if you never do, the larger bank will last longer because it won't be cycling as deep on a day to day basis. Don't get AGM, they don't last as long, if they did, the golf course fleets of golfcarts would have converted years ago, they haven't last I checked. Don't go Lithium, there are a bunch of changes for secondary systems that have to happen when you convert.
3. Depending on the age of the engine you may want to get a generator. Because of the size and weight of the boat the engine is probably large, 45-75hp and diesel. Running a diesel under loads, such as charging the batteries, for extended periods tends to glaze up the cylinders. Just before shutting down, run it up to 80% or so RPM for 10min, may help the situation. If the engine is old, I wouldn't be too worried about it. If the engine is an Atomic-4 low load operation isn't a big deal. Low load fuel economy is a problem for both gas/petrol and diesel.

H. AIS transponder is good.

Does the boat have a Bimini or Dodger?
What's the head and holding tank situation?

Here's what I recommend.
1. Learn to sail, really sail, on a small boat or dinghy.
2. Go as cheap as you can right now. Don't pour a lot of money into this and find it really doesn't suit you. You and I assume the boat are in MO. Do the minimum to get going, that means going down stream to the gulf or up river to the Great lake thence to the Atlantic. Along the way you will learn a lot of idiosyncrasies of the boat, and you will start getting a sense whether you want to keep going with this.
3. Get a crew or 2 while sailing the golf or Atlantic and make a 3-4d passage outside the InterCoastal Waterway to find out how well the electrical system does when you aren't running the engine for hours on end everyday. When you get to Florida you can make more informed decisions about what to upgrade. Better make 2 extended passages outside before you get to FL.
4. Get and mount the batteries, solar panels, controllers and cabling now. A lot of other systems depend on the electrical system so go large now. I would try to mount at least 450W of panels and have at least 450Ahr of batteries. Assuming 150Ahr/d usage you should be able to go 3-5d in overcast conditions before needing to start the engine or a genset.
5. Get the large inverter and go with an apartment fridge. You will be motoring a lot until you make an extended sailing passage, so it won't be until then that you find out if you have enough solar and batteries to supply all uses.
6. Get the drifter now. The better you can sail in light winds, the happier you will be and the more likely you will be to stick with it.
7. Get foredeck bags for the headsail and staysail. They stow in place on the stays with the sails out of the sun without taking up precious storage below. SailRite has kits, which I have used, and you will learn to sew which is a good skill to have on a sailboat. Get an older, 1970-80s sewing machine or the Singer Heavy Duty which is what my wife got me.
8. Right now test the dinghy with increasing load until you know how much load you can get on a plane. Get dinghy wheels, tiller extension, the flatter prop and the motor mount for the mothership, especially if the mothership engine is older or an Atomic-4.
9. Stick with the autopilot you have. No cost except for the upgraded electrical system you should do anyway.
10. Do not upgrade the alternator on the engine unless it is really tiny (40A). A 70-90A alternator will be fine. A larger alternator will only marginally shorten the charging time for Lead Acid batteries, regardless of whether they are flooded, AGM or Gel. Starting at 50% discharge the batteries will accept as many amps as the alternator can put out (called bulk charging). In 30-75min the batteries will reach the max allowed voltage. If you have an external smart regulator that tapers the amps and maintains 14.2-14.4v. If the alternator is internally regulated like a car it is probably limited to 13.6v or so which won't damage the battery even if it is run long periods but it will take longer to get thru absorption charging. The tapering charge (called absorption) will take 5-6hr regardless of how big the alternator is. If you need to use the engine or a genset to charge batteries regularly, you it first thing in the morning when the batteries are at their lowest, the engine will bulk charge 50-100Ahr until absorption charging starts then let the solar panels do the rest.

When you get to FL you will have made a couple passages and have an idea what they entail, you will have a better idea of what you want to add to the boat and you will still be in the US where you can get items without paying customs. And you may have discovered this is not for you. Lots of folks do, don't think you are immune. Hold back on big purchases until you have a taste of the life.

Assuming you do down river to the Gulf you want to leave MO September-ish. You can get to the Gulf in October which is still hurricane season but getting closer to the end on November 30th. If you take the Okeechobee canal that puts you in West Palm Beach. Or you can make one of your outside passages be rounding the south end of the peninsula and pull back in at Miami. Regardless, you are somewhere between Miami and West Palm and can do upgrades starting near December 1, then jump to the Bahamas in early January and have 4mo there before needing to be back in the US the beginning or middle of May to go north ahead of hurricane season which supposedly starts June 1.

If you get to FL and decide the solar can't keep up with normal sailing demands, I would get a good, small genset (Honda EU2200I for preference) and 2-75amp chargers like this: https://www.amazon.com/PowerMax-PM4-...951140228&th=1
The Honda because it is reasonably priced ($1k to me would be reasonable) and is the quietest generator that size and is just as fuel efficient as similar. You will still want to build a hushbox for it.
The 2 chargers because they are $200 each, and together, each putting out 75A, will just use 1800W which is what the Honda can put out indefinitely. Max output is usually near the most fuel efficient speed for any engine. Having a 2nd charger provides redundancy and will probably chop 1/3 off the runtime for the generator until the batteries reach absorption voltage. Bigger chargers can be found but they are more than twice as expensive. And most generators have 2 sockets so 2 chargers is possible.
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