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model 10 · 01-08-2015, 13:29

These things don't have wing tanks. They have a wet wing. Pretty much the whole inside of the wing is sealed and acts as a tank(s). So almost any wing damage is going to cause it to sink.

Saleen411 · 01-08-2015, 15:25

Quote:

If there was anyone still alive in the cockpit, they could have attempted a water landing after flame out from fuel starvation. Contrary to popular image, water landings like happened to the plane in the Hudson River with the airplane remaining in one piece are rare. Happened in SF Bay many years ago with a 707 when the captain didn't realize the auto throttle wasn't engaged and landed short of the runway. That airplane was newish and went on to fly again after the most expensive rebuild in history. Most other water crashes have been less forgiving. In most attempted water landings, the plane will dip a wing tearing it off and cart wheeling the remains. The rest of the plane shedding pieces until it comes to rest. If that was how the plane hit the water, the fuselage may have remained relatively intact or in a few large pieces. The wings rip off disintegrating in the process taking that section of the fuselage with them. You could end up with forward and aft sections of the fuselage in large pieces. That would mean not much of a debris field. If it crashed in other than a semi controlled impact with the water in a high speed, high angle impact, the plane would have broken into very small pieces with only the engines remaining recognizable. That would mean a possible large debris field. In any case, it's doubtful that the wing tanks would have survived in one piece and water tight. Very much speculation, but there doesn't seem to have been much debris after the initial crash. The search area for this crash was huge so debris might not have been noticed but they spent a ton of money and resources trying to find out where the plane went down

Agree about successful water landings being rare...but obviously can be done with a bit of skill and luck. The JAL ditching just short of the runway at SFO was an admitted "f#$K up" by the captain. WX was 300' ceilings with 3/4 mile vis...was a DC8-62....TOTAL luck in that deal.

The Ethiopian ditching didn't end well because an engine struck a reef sending it cartwheeling......bad luck.

Hudson River......Great job Capt Scully!

Believe it or not, most "glorified bus drivers" have SOME ditching training with procedures and checklists at our disposal, though no actual LIVE practice :big grin:

Water is just like concrete once struck at high speed. ValueJet hit the swamp at an estimated 507 kts and there was nothing left but confetti.

As to Malaysia.....not a clue. Hard to imagine there not being some level of pilot involvement, either directly or indirectly by allowing a bad guy into the cockpit as a result of lax flight deck entry procedures.

The parachute scenario is a stretch. Need to be depressurized to open the door.....SLOW as not to destroy your rig or yourself, and with no aft airstair, difficult to say the least.

44'cruisingcat · 01-08-2015, 18:34

We've found some bits of aircraft wrecks from WW2. Surprisingly there are some areas (patches really) that aren't heavily covered with growth.

No idea why.

socaldmax · 01-08-2015, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

We've found some bits of aircraft wrecks from WW2. Surprisingly there are some areas (patches really) that aren't heavily covered with growth.

No idea why.

My old next door neighbor was in charge of paint and coatings at Teledyne Ryan back in the day, when they dipped entire Apache fuselages and wing stubs into huge vats of "something", the words zinc chromate come to mind, but I'm not positive.

We used to get our aluminum enclosures dipped in alodyne for military use, it's a good method of preventing corrosion, but I don't think it holds a candle to the process that they used at Ryan.

Snowpetrel · 02-08-2015, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

We've found some bits of aircraft wrecks from WW2. Surprisingly there are some areas (patches really) that aren't heavily covered with growth.

No idea why.

I wonder how much of these weird antifouling things is to do with anodes? I have heard that copper looses a lot of its benefit as an antifouling agent if it is protected by anodes. So I wonder if the slow corrosion of the flaperion helped keep the growth away, together with the paint flaking off . Also deep sea doesn't seem to have the same nutrients that encourage the weed to grow. I've picked up a few buoys mid ocean and they are pretty clean except for the clusters of goose barnacles.

Sent from my HTC_0PCV2 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Neptune's Gear · 02-08-2015, 02:07

A plane door has reportedly been found washed up on Reunion Island in the Indian Ocean.
Sky News reports it's not known if the door is from the doomed Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 or if it's from a Boeing 777.
It has been discovered on a different area of the island where a two-metre wing part washed up days ago.
The wing part has now arrived at a French laboratory for analysis to determine whether it is from MH370, which disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing in March last year with 239 people on board

Delancey · 02-08-2015, 04:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwawGYg8FEU

Saleen411 · 02-08-2015, 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delancey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwawGYg8FEU

This captain did an amazing job actually. Out of fuel with just windmilling engines, the pilots had limited control with only a deployed emergency ram air turbine to provide some hydraulic pressure. Notice the flaps are UP, so his approach speed is in excess of 175kts.

Remember back in the day how in the event of a ditching, the pre departure demo said to inflate one side of your vest prior to deplaning? Not anymore...as many on this crash drowned as a result of being trapped up against the ceiling of the sinking hull with an inflated vest.

Only good news in this deal was that the hijackers were killed.

Cheechako · 02-08-2015, 09:06

That part looks loaded with growth to me....? what are you guys looking at?

socaldmax · 02-08-2015, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

That part looks loaded with growth to me....? what are you guys looking at?

The 95% of it's surface area that has no growth on it at all. The white sections.

jackdale · 02-08-2015, 11:18

So if the piece of wing is shown to be from the MH 370 777, there are only 2 explanations.

1) It really is from the crash.

2) Prior to MH 370 disappearance someone removed the part, replaced it with another, and dropped it in the water near Reunion Island as part of a massive scheme based on the plane vanishing from sight.