Bahamas Warns Citizens About USA

[DeepFrz]

Yes. And turn off your engine and place your keys on the dash.

Impossible to do with many new cars.

[Mike OReilly]

From The Guardian: By the numbers: US police kill more in days than other countries do in years

This piece, and the accompanying database, attempts to quantify the number of deaths each year at the hands of police around the world. It's notoriously difficult to make these kinds of comparisons, but as the story summarizes:

"...the US is not just some outlier in terms of police violence when compared with countries of similar economic and political standing.

America is the outlier..."

Highlights:

• In the first 24 days of 2015, police in the US fatally shot more people than police did in England and Wales, combined, over the past 24 years.
  
• Police in the US have shot and killed more people – in every week this year – than are reportedly shot and killed by German police in an entire year.
  
• Police in the US fatally shot more people in one month this year than police in Australia officially reported during a span of 19 years.
  
• Police in Canada average 25 fatal shooting a year. In California, a state just 10% more populous than Canada, police in 2015 have fatally shot nearly three times as many people in just five months.

There's plenty that has been written and studied about why this is so. If the reasons were simple then so would the solutions. One strong theme seems to be the increasing militarization of police forces in the USA (and sadly, I would say Canada as well).

The relevance to a cruising forum is that sailors from all over the world visit the USA. Just like it's important to understand the local concerns of other countries, so to with places like the US. We discuss piracy and high theft zones in other countries. Seems reasonable to note the concerns found in other places.

[Tkeeth]

I believe also it is relevant as many of us travel to all sorts of places. Interaction with law enforcement, customs, and locals and traditions is very important. It was going well I thought, but any politicaly charged discussion invites ignorant misinformed people to put up their 2 cents as well. I have traveled all over the U.S., Europe, Carribean, Central and Some of South America, and parts of SE Asia. I have had interactions with local law enforcement and some good and not so good experiences. In all of the countries I have been in places I felt safe and had no issues, and in all of these countries I have had bad experiences up to fear for my life. Shaken down and ripped off by federales in Mexico, attempted mugging in Ecuador, ,hotel room robbed and ransacked in BudaPest. The problem of disrespect and the counter of "YOU WILL RESPECT ME" attitude is a unversal issue that affects many areas. Whether its a corrupt law enforcement official, or a local group who sees any outsider as a target, these are international issues that affect all travelers. The U.S., in my opinion has an image problem brought on by our so called intellectual elites pushing their agendas and the puppet media that reports what they are brainwashed to be the news and ignorant uniformed people eat it up. Every place can be as dangerous as the next, but at least in the U.S. if you treat law enforcement with respect and obey simple procedures you most likely will not have an issue. What worked for me in Ecuador for example was to just keep smiling and saying I don't understand, eventualy he gave up trying to sheake me down as it was just too much work...

[250224]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

He was speeding so got stopped. The drivers side electric window was broken so he opened the door and got out. He was immediately thrown over the hood and handcuffed

The system has to be changed completely. Police never ever should be allowed to behave like this. And normal people should not be allowed to carry weapons. How shameful for a (in principle) civilized country that matters have become so rotten. I looked up the number of inmates in the states, just unbelievable.

[Edit: uups, sorry, just read about waaay offtopic... I fear this is also true for this post]

[Jim Cate]

The relevance to a cruising forum is that sailors from all over the world visit the USA. Just like it's important to understand the local concerns of other countries, so to with places like the US. We discuss piracy and high theft zones in other countries. Seems reasonable to note the concerns found in other places.

Well said, Mike! IMO, practical info re dealing with LEOs and other officials is prime cruising data. We appreciate such info when going to strange places, and agree that folks coming to the USA deserve to know about the dangers they may encounter, whether from rocks, shoals or officials.

So, if we can stop blathering about the political/social issues and stick to practicalities, it is not off topic for CF.

Jim

[lonesoldier0408]

It's telling that this should come up now. The new status in enforcement is more mercenaries fewer peace officers. No longer are the rights of individuals considered when filling the cities Corporate Collection plates.
Ask for the W-9. Cursive is no-longer taught, as you can't quote a Constitution, that you can not read.
The digital world is erasing the documented world, as new software fails to retrieve the data from the old software. False flag operations to pit one segment of the human race against another will further the depopulation of the planet as the elite feel protected by their armed security and good old boy politics. The American Dream isn't over, but it is in peril.! Dead students, singing in a choir after Sandy Hook is telling.!
Non-disclosure agreements forced on medical staff after a night club shooting.? Victims statements and official reports conflicting.? Oooops! I've said too much.! Try not to miss me and don't cry, after all, I rang the bell.! 29+ years of looking at the, "Big Picture.!"


Still surrounded by anchors.

[nautical62]

I've always felt safer cruising in the Bahamas than in Florida. Nassau being the big exception.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by avb3

If this thread has anything to do with sailing or cruising, let's hear it. Otherwise, it is waaaay off topic for this forum.

So black people from the Bahama's don't sail to the US?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well said, Mike! IMO, practical info re dealing with LEOs and other officials is prime cruising data. We appreciate such info when going to strange places, and agree that folks coming to the USA deserve to know about the dangers they may encounter, whether from rocks, shoals or officials.

Well said Jim. As cruisers, it doesn't really matter why things are the way they are in a given country. But it certainly helps to know what the state of things actually are. I think Tkeeth's advice is apt.

As someone who lives close to the USA, and can see the trends in my own country, I am saddened by this reality, but I accept it as sound advice.

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Which doesn't invalidate the Bahamian government's warning to it's black citizens, who may not be used to taking rigorous precautions when interacting with police officers.

All it takes is common sense.
If a police officer tells you: don't move. Then you don't move. If that officer then says hands on your head, you place them on your head, not into your pockets. Stupid criminal people get killed by police, not law abiding people.
There are exceptions to this, but they are a smaller number then megalotto winners.

[sailnow2011]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

So black people from the Bahama's don't sail to the US?

Black sailors are very rare. I have no idea why, as I know of many that are very wealthy personally, and could afford much more boat then I can.

[giant]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Its not sad at all. Its reality.

There are cultural differences that could wind up a visitor dead in the USA.

Heres one.

I was taught in Australia as a lad that if ever i was pulled over by the Police I need to get out of the car first and meet the Police officer with a handshake and an appology as he was getting out of his car. Common good manners in my country at the time! Just the normal right thing to do.

In 1992 i was driving in the USA on my first trip there and was pulled over by the Police and so I, naturally, jumped out of the car to go meet them.

Doing that could get you shot.

Its not sad, instead it is wise to inform your holiday makers about the cultural differences of the countries they are going to. Especially at times like this when those vacationers may be youg, black and partying.


Mark

Mark, I had the exact same experience also in 1992 in Colorado. Got out of car to meet cop in his car he pulled his gun instantly and I came very close to being shot.

Cultural differences indeed. Of course now days in Australia generally you wait in the car for the cop to come to you.

[Sea Dreaming]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

All it takes is common sense.
If a police officer tells you: don't move. Then you don't move. If that officer then says hands on your head, you place them on your head, not into your pockets. Stupid criminal people get killed by police, not law abiding people.
There are exceptions to this, but they are a smaller number then megalotto winners.

I wish this statement were true. Sadly our police force is increasingly reactive and fearful. And while this does not mean police kill, there are many instances where the police over react, engage law abiding people with excess force.
Of course we must continue to support the police and use common sense and follow instructions form police. But there is no denying that our force needs new training. The old stuff isnt working.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailnow2011

Stupid criminal people get killed by police, not law abiding people.

Oh, yeah? Tell that to Philando Castile

[Pelagic]

I believe there is a direct correlation between how a citizen is culturally indoctrinated in matters of 'Freedom of Speech', 'Civil Rights', 'Rule of Law' and Individuality, that causes behavioral patterns during social conflicts to be either confrontational or cooperative.

Ironically, the US, which prides itself as a leader and world example in all of the above, .....primes both sides to be more confrontational.

Alternately....
Cultural difference, here in the Philippines, if stopped for a legitimate traffic violation:

A sincere apology, together with your documentation and 500 pesos in view, resolves the matter quickly with smiles all around.