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Old 25-07-2020, 18:44   #1
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Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Over the last 4.5 months living onboard, on lockdown in a foreign land, my priorities and posture with locals has changed as I see pandemic stresses affecting everyone.

I no longer question draconian or over reactionary pandemic rules, just meekly accept and follow

I accept that my freedom is in the hands of various levels of competency, fear and emotions

If anything its getting worse!

For example, even though we have had no COVID deaths and only 2 local residents testing positive after they invited friends from Manila to stay with them, the lockdown mentality continues.

A Superyacht about 1/2km from us on a different dock just had a stewardess return from Manila 2 days ago, felt ill and was just tested positive as a 3rd patient.

Despite no interaction between the boats and crew, they've shut down access going to or from the pier.

So no food shopping/banking or anything till they decide its safe!

A few months ago, this would have infuriated me, now I just accept and make sure not to react negatively with local officials

If you are still not allowed to leave the dock, how is it affecting you?
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Old 25-07-2020, 18:46   #2
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

This may also seem like a silly question but it relates to live aboard couples and COVID laundry.

With limited laundry facilities and water, I am saying to my partner:

IF short term exposure for shopping for an hour or so, no public transport, no contact, everyone wearing masks and 100% social distancing

It's OK to just hang up the clothes in the Sun for a few hours, before putting them away.
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Old 25-07-2020, 18:57   #3
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
This may also seem like a silly question but it relates to live aboard couples and COVID laundry.

With limited laundry facilities and water, I am saying to my partner:

IF short term exposure for shopping for an hour or so, no public transport, no contact, everyone wearing masks and 100% social distancing

It's OK to just hang up the clothes in the Sun for a few hours, before putting them away.
I’m of the opinion that there is no need to wash clothing at all. The virus dies out over a matter of days at warm, room temperature. Just change and use the “going ashore” clothes later. Next time you go ashore. They’ll be ready to wear.

Or, yes, the sun truck for as short as an hour is going to work.

It’s actually quite delicate. And easily destroyed.

Unles it’s on a hard, smooth surface, in the cold or suspended in the air in an aerosol.

So wear that mask and wash the provisions. Or... leave anything you buy in its grocery bag for a couple weeks if it’s not perishable. And NEVER eat out. In my opinion.

Source: I’ve survived both Florida and NYC/Long Island. The epicenters. By doing exactly as above.
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Old 25-07-2020, 19:01   #4
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Over the last 4.5 months living onboard, on lockdown in a foreign land, my priorities and posture with locals has changed as I see pandemic stresses affecting everyone.

I no longer question draconian or over reactionary pandemic rules, just meekly accept and follow

I accept that my freedom is in the hands of various levels of competency, fear and emotions

If anything its getting worse!

For example, even though we have had no COVID deaths and only 2 local residents testing positive after they invited friends from Manila to stay with them, the lockdown mentality continues.

A Superyacht about 1/2km from us on a different dock just had a stewardess return from Manila 2 days ago, felt ill and was just tested positive as a 3rd patient.

Despite no interaction between the boats and crew, they've shut down access going to or from the pier.

So no food shopping/banking or anything till they decide its safe!

A few months ago, this would have infuriated me, now I just accept and make sure not to react negatively with local officials

If you are still not allowed to leave the dock, how is it affecting you?
I hope to god your opinions on this are a minority global opinion, though I fear they may be a equal or even a majority.

Once a majority population going down the normalization path, there are very few positive outcomes for a free society

I would also just live life presuming you are going to get it, or already had it
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Old 25-07-2020, 19:06   #5
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

We cruised for 11 years but now live in Miami overlooking Biscayne Bay.

Miami did not take covid19 seriously and as as of today in Miami-Dade County population 2.7 million, positivity rate is 30%, total cases 101,854 and deaths 1379.

Mask use is 50% at best...be grateful you are somewhere that the disease is taken seriously
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Old 25-07-2020, 19:32   #6
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

we keep hand sanitizer and face masks in the cockpit and use them if going ashore ,wash hands regularly and always when returning to the boat or handling newly purchased stores.
our sprayer for deck showers has a weak bleach/ water solution in it for spraying fruit,vegtables,shoes or any potential infected items that we cant leave in the sun to steralise.

social distance if going out,we try to reduce shopping to essential trips,but maintain and augment about 3 months of backup food stores,gas and fuel etc

we only had 14 people die locally/2 mile radius and no covid deaths in the last 3 weeks ,so got off quite lightly compared to other regions,all more or less back to normal currently but cases are rising again,so localised lockdowns will not be unexpected in the future.

what is worrying is lockdown fatigue has set in and a section of the population who fail to see the risks of exponential spread or don't care,or are just plain ignorant.
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Old 25-07-2020, 19:57   #7
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

We have been given the use of a car for shopping runs. We made up some hand sanitizer and keep it in the drinks tray. Use it before leaving car, and when returning, unless the store is providing the sanitizer (which some are, here.)

We also made up a tiny jar of sanitizer, it fits in your pants pocket or a shirt pocket. Very convenient to have it right there.

Like atoll, we sanitize when we return to the boat. We have not done anything in particular about our clothes.

While I think being exposed to covid 19 is inevitable in the long run, my hope is to keep us from getting it long enough that the folks who have more likelihood of being infected and their families and friends and acquaintances have a chance to play through, so that by the time we wind up in hospital (which could happen) the hospital personnel will have some general immunity, and know how to treat us more effectively. This attitude may well not play out, but it seems like our best chance at the moment. None of us gets out of this alive, after all, something takes us out. So being attentive, and thoughtful, and trying to stay healthy makes sense to this little brown duck.

Pelagic, I am sorry you are not allowed off the dock and are stuck in a marina. We, at least, are on the hook, and are able to move around. We are therefore able to go anchor places where we can walk to provision. It all helps. We're going to have to haul out (long story), and that will be a different story, as we will have to use some communal facilities. And, I have a spray bottle of meths for door knobs, wash machines, etc.

Ann
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Old 26-07-2020, 04:50   #8
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

I'm still in the working class but a liveaboard.
My routine hasn't changed much as I'm asocial and Key West (as a city) can only hold a persons interest for a few weeks, and I've been here for two months. So, other than work, I don't go to town except for supplies and my Saturday morning breakfast out. The only real difference is remembering to bring a mask to shore to wear in stores.
Offline you really don't see much difference in the non-tourist part of town (haven't really gone downtown since this started), most people are wearing masks especially in stores, on the bus, etc.
Online, the city has gone nuts. There's a lot of fear and anger going on. The city is making ordinances (closing boat ramps for lobster season, but then providing enough exceptions that it's a useless rule as an example) seemingly by randomly pulling suggestions out of a hat. This has everyone polarizing into "we're all going to die" to "it's just the flu".
Quote:
Once a majority population going down the normalization path, there are very few positive outcomes for a free society
This is the biggest long term issue I see coming out of this situation. I'm a liberty focused person (I value that over money, safety and convenience) borderline anarchist. It's worrisome that everyone is looking to .gov for a solution without facing the fact that .gov has been liars, corrupt, incompetent, etc etc so many times in the past. It's like a battered wife syndrome, where the .gov says this time they won't get drunk and beat you. Those that do question are quickly lumped into one of the extreme points of view or canceled as "not caring". The long term implications of our lack of questioning is, in my opinion, going to be the worst casualty of this crisis.
I'm not advocating for any one position on any issue. Just that we question everything.
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Old 26-07-2020, 06:25   #9
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

a pretty good analysis from a doctor who lives on the water
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Old 26-07-2020, 07:03   #10
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
I'm still in the working class but a liveaboard.
My routine hasn't changed much as I'm asocial and Key West (as a city) can only hold a persons interest for a few weeks, and I've been here for two months. So, other than work, I don't go to town except for supplies and my Saturday morning breakfast out. The only real difference is remembering to bring a mask to shore to wear in stores.
Offline you really don't see much difference in the non-tourist part of town (haven't really gone downtown since this started), most people are wearing masks especially in stores, on the bus, etc.
Online, the city has gone nuts. There's a lot of fear and anger going on. The city is making ordinances (closing boat ramps for lobster season, but then providing enough exceptions that it's a useless rule as an example) seemingly by randomly pulling suggestions out of a hat. This has everyone polarizing into "we're all going to die" to "it's just the flu".

This is the biggest long term issue I see coming out of this situation. I'm a liberty focused person (I value that over money, safety and convenience) borderline anarchist. It's worrisome that everyone is looking to .gov for a solution without facing the fact that .gov has been liars, corrupt, incompetent, etc etc so many times in the past. It's like a battered wife syndrome, where the .gov says this time they won't get drunk and beat you. Those that do question are quickly lumped into one of the extreme points of view or canceled as "not caring". The long term implications of our lack of questioning is, in my opinion, going to be the worst casualty of this crisis.
I'm not advocating for any one position on any issue. Just that we question everything.


I agree. So many people looking to the government for the answer. The answer lies with the individual (and maybe 10-60 years ago with the department of education).
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Old 26-07-2020, 09:42   #11
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

In Germany, the number of cases is low. It is just in the culture not to have much urge for body contact with others. We live normally, do not wear masks outdoors, wear masks in public indoor places, except for eating in restaurants, where tables are further apart than usual. People avoid touching too many things in shops, etc. Kids still play when th their friends. Yes there have been a number of cases in the neighbourhood but people just happily follow the routine without exaggerating or freeking out, and it just seems to work.
Being French, Germans give a good lecture of "savour vivre" on that topic. OK, there are also good hospital here as backup.
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Old 26-07-2020, 10:48   #12
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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I agree. So many people looking to the government for the answer. The answer lies with the individual (and maybe 10-60 years ago with the department of education).
That's it in a nutshell Chotu.

My point about just accepting all the varying degrees of pandemic rules by local Admins is from the perspective of being a Foreigner/Expat in a country and not a citizen.

People are angry on all sides, looking for someone to blame or just vent against.

A foreign liveaboard, complaining or making waves, becomes an easy target. So, I just accept whatever reactionary new rules , frightened local officials impose

Like Ann and Atoll, we are fastidious about sanitizing and distancing and see this as a delaying tactic on infection
......, but mentally it now feels like I'm Hove-to, with no weather forecast in sight!
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Old 26-07-2020, 11:17   #13
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
I'm still in the working class but a liveaboard.
My routine hasn't changed much as I'm asocial and Key West (as a city) can only hold a persons interest for a few weeks, and I've been here for two months. So, other than work, I don't go to town except for supplies and my Saturday morning breakfast out. The only real difference is remembering to bring a mask to shore to wear in stores.
Offline you really don't see much difference in the non-tourist part of town (haven't really gone downtown since this started), most people are wearing masks especially in stores, on the bus, etc.
Online, the city has gone nuts. There's a lot of fear and anger going on. The city is making ordinances (closing boat ramps for lobster season, but then providing enough exceptions that it's a useless rule as an example) seemingly by randomly pulling suggestions out of a hat. This has everyone polarizing into "we're all going to die" to "it's just the flu".

This is the biggest long term issue I see coming out of this situation. I'm a liberty focused person (I value that over money, safety and convenience) borderline anarchist. It's worrisome that everyone is looking to .gov for a solution without facing the fact that .gov has been liars, corrupt, incompetent, etc etc so many times in the past. It's like a battered wife syndrome, where the .gov says this time they won't get drunk and beat you. Those that do question are quickly lumped into one of the extreme points of view or canceled as "not caring". The long term implications of our lack of questioning is, in my opinion, going to be the worst casualty of this crisis.
I'm not advocating for any one position on any issue. Just that we question everything.
These virus reactions today remind me of the commercials for some medication that cures some minor issue, only to hear at the end of the add that the pill has side effects which sound less pleasant than the disease it was marketed to fix.

Not too shocked when I see a college kid who still has this Star Trek fantasy about what government is all about, but when I meet someone my age who still has the same beliefs I just shake my head and wonder if this person was locked in a underground bunker since they were a teen or something.
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Old 26-07-2020, 12:41   #14
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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a pretty good analysis from a doctor who lives on the water
Is this the same YouTube doc who had that doom filled video back when the media and government first started with covid, he did a take on on this is your lungs, this is your lungs on covid, but with a sponge? Yeah, same guy, I chuckled when he introduced himself as “world famous” in all his videos.

The weight loss doc seems to only point towards imminent doom, I’ll hand it to him, he knows marketing and sales, people glue themselves to programs like those “10 things in your kitchen that will kill you...after these messages” that you see on the news stations from time to time.

One should also point out, a bariatric doctor, that’s a weight loss doctor

It’s worth noting that two doctors who run multiple urgent care clinics and who have tested thousands, say the virus is bad, but government and media reaction is out of hand, only to be banned and from YouTube

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Old 26-07-2020, 15:37   #15
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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Its worth noting that two doctors who run multiple urgent care clinics and who have tested thousands, say the virus is bad, but government and media reaction is out of hand, only to be banned and from YouTube

I live in Australia and we've been quite lucky to have contained the virus spread fairly well here. Though we have one state now struggling to get on top of a new outbreak that was caused by people returning from overseas who had to go into compulsory hotel lock down. Sadly, some of those people did not following the proper protocols, and some where even having sex with the security people who were supposed to be watching over them.

Those security people then went out into the community and the virus spread took off again. We now have a second state battling to a smaller outbreak as well.

I watched the video made by those two doctors before it was pulled from youtube. They seemed quite reasoned with their explanations, and their arguments appeared valid and made a lot of sense to me.

I should say here, that I'm 57 years old and I've witnessed enough in my lifetime to know that not everything is how it first appears, particularly in the mainstream media. I'd describe myself as a relatively logical thinking kind of guy. I know I'm not an expert on anything in particular, nor do I pretend to be. However, I can apply critical thinking to big issues, and because of those things I've witnessed over time, I tend to look for what might be the "alterior motive" behind an idea or agenda. I'm won't blindly follow a government or media narrative, or go with the flow of the masses.

There are certainly a lot of conspiracy theories being offered up about Corona virus right now. The fact these two doctors video has been pulled down from youtube seems both strange and a little worrying to me. In my opinion it was an non offensive practical look at the facts of Covid 19 based on their own real world data and years of experience.

But the point that triggered my interest was when those two doctors mentioned that they were hearing from other doctors telling them they are being pressured to add Covid 19 as a cause to a death on death certificates to artrificially push up the case numbers.

That was a red flag for me that gets my mind thinking about "the alterior motive"?

A few weeks after, I was pointed to an article about something called "The Great Reset 2021" by the World Economic forum. I then watched a few of the WEF video's that explained what this reset idea was all about, and how in their opinion Covid 19 has provided them with a "unique window of opportunity" (their words not mine) to implement their agenda.

I felt that maybe I had found the alterior motive? But I hope I am wrong, because the reset idea doesn't look good to me, and looks more like a world of neosocialism.

I've posted the link to one of the better video's for anyone who might be interested in taking a look for themselves, as there seems to be no mainstream media coverage of this "Great reset 2021" idea as yet. And that in itself makes me question if there is indeed an alterior motive? Because this reset idea is pretty big and it will have global consequences for everyone. So I thought the media would be all over it.

Sorry if this leads a little off topic from the OP.


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