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Old 28-07-2020, 17:10   #31
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Over the last 4.5 months living onboard, on lockdown in a foreign land, my priorities and posture with locals has changed as I see pandemic stresses affecting everyone.

I no longer question draconian or over reactionary pandemic rules, just meekly accept and follow

I accept that my freedom is in the hands of various levels of competency, fear and emotions

If anything its getting worse!

For example, even though we have had no COVID deaths and only 2 local residents testing positive after they invited friends from Manila to stay with them, the lockdown mentality continues.

A Superyacht about 1/2km from us on a different dock just had a stewardess return from Manila 2 days ago, felt ill and was just tested positive as a 3rd patient.

Despite no interaction between the boats and crew, they've shut down access going to or from the pier.

So no food shopping/banking or anything till they decide its safe!

A few months ago, this would have infuriated me, now I just accept and make sure not to react negatively with local officials

If you are still not allowed to leave the dock, how is it affecting you?
Why can't you leave? You are'nt a 'national' of the Phillipines, so ask for your outbound departure paperwork and head to friendly shores....you are on a sailboat after all.

I personally know 2 people who recently, 5 july, flew out of the Phillipines, one a US citizen and his Phillipine born wife. They were 'stuck' waiting to visit her family there for 3 weeks. Once they realized the Govt was'nt going to allow any interaction they bought new tickets and left. Of course there is a reason NYC has a high China Virus rate, they flew back there! When I told them they had to stay home for 14 days self quarrintine, they laughed and said "we just spent 3 weeks in quarrintine".

I told them good luck with that!
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Old 28-07-2020, 18:19   #32
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Over the last 4.5 months living onboard, on lockdown in a foreign land, my priorities and posture with locals has changed as I see pandemic stresses affecting everyone.

I no longer question draconian or over reactionary pandemic rules, just meekly accept and follow

I accept that my freedom is in the hands of various levels of competency, fear and emotions

If anything its getting worse!

For example, even though we have had no COVID deaths and only 2 local residents testing positive after they invited friends from Manila to stay with them, the lockdown mentality continues.

A Superyacht about 1/2km from us on a different dock just had a stewardess return from Manila 2 days ago, felt ill and was just tested positive as a 3rd patient.

Despite no interaction between the boats and crew, they've shut down access going to or from the pier.

So no food shopping/banking or anything till they decide its safe!

A few months ago, this would have infuriated me, now I just accept and make sure not to react negatively with local officials

If you are still not allowed to leave the dock, how is it affecting you?
Iíve been baffled by the world response since day one of this thing. Iím not gonna get into what is right or wrong because I donít know and it doesnít matter. The up close and credible threat is not the virus but the ďenforcers.Ē They are the ones that can put the screws on you and make you hurt today. So my attitude is to just go along and get along, present no obstacle, let them yell at someone else.

Hopefully we will get over this someday, I think that itís likely, but Iím no longer certain. In the meantime itís really screwed with my life. Carib cruising is dead, I canít get to my cabin in Canada. Iím stuck on the US East coast for the time being. Our boats on the hard for some work, we have a car so we can get around, the daily restrictions are pretty minimal. So we are making lemon aide.

Sorry to hear of your restrictions. Good luck and much patience.
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Old 28-07-2020, 18:59   #33
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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Iíve been baffled by the world response since day one of this thing. Iím not gonna get into what is right or wrong because I donít know and it doesnít matter. The up close and credible threat is not the virus but the ďenforcers.Ē They are the ones that can put the screws on you and make you hurt today. So my attitude is to just go along and get along, present no obstacle, let them yell at someone else.

Hopefully we will get over this someday, I think that itís likely, but Iím no longer certain. In the meantime itís really screwed with my life. Carib cruising is dead, I canít get to my cabin in Canada. Iím stuck on the US East coast for the time being. Our boats on the hard for some work, we have a car so we can get around, the daily restrictions are pretty minimal. So we are making lemon aide.

Sorry to hear of your restrictions. Good luck and much patience.
ď First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak for me.Ē
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Old 28-07-2020, 19:27   #34
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Our situation here is very similar to OP's.


I am extremely pissed off by this.


A bunch of morons sits at the bar all night or they throw a garden party, they get sick.


Then the mayor announces a lockdown and EVERYBODY is expected to follow curfews etc.


But the police did not intervene while the party lasted nor when they passed by that stock full bar.


Millions of decent people who do care about theirs and everybody else's safety are being punished for behaviour of a bunch of selfish idiots.


HUGE, and I do mean HUGE disappointment in global and local leadership and practice.


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Old 28-07-2020, 19:29   #35
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

BTW My new priority - survive, survive and then hopefully go sailing again, perhaps in 2022 or soon beyond.


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Old 28-07-2020, 19:55   #36
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Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

I hope your wife finds a way! The injustice comes so easily to those in power.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO View Post
Such draconian and over reaching of Government is something that everyone should be concerned about, but from reading most of the views on this forum and on social media, sadly that is not the case

Your comment brought me out of the shadows. Iíve lurked here for a while to learn and to get a flavor of the kinds of people who cruise and explore. Iíve been very disappointed by the overall lack of resolve you mention above. I expected free spirits on boats, roaming where they wish, independent, self-reliant, and suspicious of any do-gooders who would wield violence against the innocent. And much (not all) of what I hear here is complaining and a defending of the powers that be with the melodrama and shaming to match. I honestly would hate to be stranded with such types with no will to solve problems and thrive. I hope this is due merely to the kind of people drawn to online forums. Iím encouraged the spirit of the sea is alive with some.
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Old 28-07-2020, 21:19   #37
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Our situation here is very similar to OP's.


I am extremely pissed off by this.


A bunch of morons sits at the bar all night or they throw a garden party, they get sick.


Then the mayor announces a lockdown and EVERYBODY is expected to follow curfews etc.


But the police did not intervene while the party lasted nor when they passed by that stock full bar.


Millions of decent people who do care about theirs and everybody else's safety are being punished for behaviour of a bunch of selfish idiots.


HUGE, and I do mean HUGE disappointment in global and local leadership and practice.


barnakiel
Sounds like a bar of adults making their own choices, who got a virus with a sub 1% chance of death.

I also don’t require the government to “punish” adults for living a free life, presuming they were all there of their own freewill

The concern shouldn’t be with the men who got a beer, it should be with the government exercising powers they don’t have and were never intended to have.
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Old 28-07-2020, 23:41   #38
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

IslandInfedel,

And this is the reason the level of coronavirus in the States is so high. You might not care who gets it, but the people you will infect do. Stop being irresponsible.

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Old 28-07-2020, 23:44   #39
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

IslandInfedel,

Next time you want to spout off about what a government can and cannot do, make sure you know what you're talking about. I taught government at two universities. They do have the right to make rules concerning public health. Don't you think our Founders knew about plagues?

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Old 29-07-2020, 02:34   #40
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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IslandInfedel,

Next time you want to spout off about what a government can and cannot do, make sure you know what you're talking about. I taught government at two universities. They do have the right to make rules concerning public health. Don't you think our Founders knew about plagues?

Maje
Ofcourse they knew about people getting sick,, not sure I’d call this a plague, as that term conjures up images of events that had a much higher mortality and morbidity rate.

I keep reading the bill of rights, I don’t see where it says that our rights are void if there is a virus going around. Could you imagine how pointless those rights would be if all some tyrant had to do was wait until flu season, play the sickness card, and “legally” violate everyone’s rights?!
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Old 29-07-2020, 04:01   #41
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Speaking from my observation it is early pointless to discuss. The USA is being swamped in various forms of propaganda, it is almost impossible to sort out any true data, and the herd/mob instinct has be aroused. How the herd moves is everything, and it will trample anything in its way. That’s why the propaganda wars are being so hotly fought.

The virus itself is like a gale, or maybe a strong breeze. The herd reaction can be more like a hurricane or as yet undetermined force, if it fully develops nothing can withstand its fury. At the moment I put the herd reaction at about “strong gale” proportions and awaits further development. How deeply it develops is anyone’s guess.

Over the years I’ve read up a fair bit on human behavior so the above is not a totally uninformed opinion, but an observation of current behavior viewed with some knowledge of how our actions are developed. The reasoned mode Of action, always tenuous, is being suppressed; revenge mode is being activated.
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Old 29-07-2020, 09:31   #42
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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Sounds like a bar of adults making their own choices, who got a virus with a sub 1% chance of death.

I also donít require the government to ďpunishĒ adults for living a free life, presuming they were all there of their own freewill

The concern shouldnít be with the men who got a beer, it should be with the government exercising powers they donít have and were never intended to have.

Well, according to what you can read in what seems to be non-biased sources:


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


(if in doubt check Hopkins' data)



if you get it, globally, you have about 6% probability of kicking the bucket. Your 1% figure represents what?


Now the govts you mentioned got elected in democratic process and represent at least 51% of the population. In most places today the govts represent anything from 51% to maybe 95-97% of the population.


So this is where the problem is - these govts represent those guys in that bar, happily exposing themselves, and others to say 5% chance of not going cruising next year.


But it is 27%, if you are Italian.


What now?


Where do we go from here?


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Old 29-07-2020, 11:05   #43
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Well, according to what you can read in what seems to be non-biased sources:


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


(if in doubt check Hopkins' data)



if you get it, globally, you have about 6% probability of kicking the bucket. Your 1% figure represents what?


Now the govts you mentioned got elected in democratic process and represent at least 51% of the population. In most places today the govts represent anything from 51% to maybe 95-97% of the population.


So this is where the problem is - these govts represent those guys in that bar, happily exposing themselves, and others to say 5% chance of not going cruising next year.


But it is 27%, if you are Italian.


What now?


Where do we go from here?


barnakiel
It’s under 1% for those who are not already nearing end of life, and that’s not even factoring all the folks who had it and never got tested because they didn’t even feel sick.

Freewill, if you think going to a bar is too big of a risk, don’t go to a bar, if you think a mask will save you, wear a mask, if you never want to leave your home again, batten the hatches

One of the factors in the death rate is also age and obesity, Italy has a good amount of both, being very old and very big does not equal being around very long, if it’s not the Covid it will be a heart attack, diabetes, or even the common cold, another factor is the quality, availability and speed of health care.

What does it matter who got voted in or the majority think? The US is not a democracy or mob rule, it is a constitutional republic, and no matter how many angry nosy neighbors want to take your rights, they can not.


Where we go from here is tell the gov to STOP
People make their own decisions and let free market do its thing

Personally if I didn’t already have this virus, I figure I will get it and based on numbers if I even feel sick, I’ll get over it, like the other times in life I caught a nasty bug.

I also support your right to stay at home, wear a mask, or whatever you feel is best for you.

Per the TV and the political people, I first and foremost trust my eyes and personal experience, no matter how hard someone tries I will never be convinced the blue sky is purple, maybe that’s my age talking or not doing the Facebook. I have been to many places where the TV said the world is ending, I didn’t see it, and I don’t even know anyone who knows anyone who had it. Sounds like a bad bug to catch, but the fear sounds much worse
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Old 29-07-2020, 11:25   #44
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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I hope to god your opinions on this are a minority global opinion, though I fear they may be a equal or even a majority.

Once a majority population going down the normalization path, there are very few positive outcomes for a free society

I would also just live life presuming you are going to get it, or already had it
Your playing with your, and others, well being, and maybe your/their life with this attitude.

I know of one guy who had covid, he ended up having a mild stoke from the blood clotting, needed physical therapy to walk again, and is now having memory issues (he doesn't remember having covid and thinks he's been working the whole time). He's in his early 60s.

This is not something to take lightly.

You definitely do not want covid, we don't even know the full range of lasting health effects yet, and won't for years.

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Old 29-07-2020, 11:37   #45
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

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That was a red flag for me that gets my mind thinking about "the alterior motive"?
I don't know if that was a typo, a malapropism or you just coined a new phrase, but I like it. An ulterior motive to spread alternative facts
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