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Old 26-07-2020, 17:34   #16
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Anyone using hand sanitizer, please note the recent news reports (at least here in the Northeast) disclose that a number of hand sanitizers contain carcinogens. Bleach, even when diluted, is also toxic and not recommended for washing anything you ingest. Cleaning surfaces and non-eatables with 70% - 78% alcohol is the best. A higher concentration evaporates too quickly to kill the virus. When I can find them, I use the 70% alcohol swabs one can get at most pharmacies, but quantities are low. I believe either the CDC or EWG came out with a list of effective, non-harmful cleaners, some of which are a number of cleaning products made by 7th Generation. They are effective and at the same time safe for the environment, your animals and you. Hydrogen Peroxide also works (I am allergic to it) but note, NEVER mix Hydrogen Peroxide with vinegar as that will create caustic peracetic acid. Actually, never mix Hydrogen Peroxide (or alcohol) with anything else.
Finally, gloves are a must. Before the scientists (and belatedly the CDC) said that the virus is transmitted through the fine spray of saliva which we all expel when talking, laughing, (Screaming), the scientists and CDC advised that the virus lives long enough on surfaces so that it can be transmitted by touch, whether to yourself or another surface or someone else. It doesn't die or break down as quickly as someone wrote in this thread. Please, gloves are a must! You don't need to wear vinyl or latex disposable gloves - they are hard to find these days. I wear cotton gloves when out of my sanctuary and wash them upon returning.
Best of luck to all of you at sea or forcibly docked or moored for the duration. I wish I was at sea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
we keep hand sanitizer and face masks in the cockpit and use them if going ashore ,wash hands regularly and always when returning to the boat or handling newly purchased stores.
our sprayer for deck showers has a weak bleach/ water solution in it for spraying fruit,vegtables,shoes or any potential infected items that we cant leave in the sun to steralise.

social distance if going out,we try to reduce shopping to essential trips,but maintain and augment about 3 months of backup food stores,gas and fuel etc

we only had 14 people die locally/2 mile radius and no covid deaths in the last 3 weeks ,so got off quite lightly compared to other regions,all more or less back to normal currently but cases are rising again,so localised lockdowns will not be unexpected in the future.

what is worrying is lockdown fatigue has set in and a section of the population who fail to see the risks of exponential spread or don't care,or are just plain ignorant.
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Old 26-07-2020, 17:43   #17
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamaiden View Post
Anyone using hand sanitizer, please note the recent news reports (at least here in the Northeast) disclose that a number of hand sanitizers contain carcinogens. Bleach, even when diluted, is also toxic and not recommended for washing anything you ingest. Cleaning surfaces and non-eatables with 70% - 78% alcohol is the best. A higher concentration evaporates too quickly to kill the virus. When I can find them, I use the 70% alcohol swabs one can get at most pharmacies, but quantities are low. I believe either the CDC or EWG came out with a list of effective, non-harmful cleaners, some of which are a number of cleaning products made by 7th Generation. They are effective and at the same time safe for the environment, your animals and you. Hydrogen Peroxide also works (I am allergic to it) but note, NEVER mix Hydrogen Peroxide with vinegar as that will create caustic peracetic acid. Actually, never mix Hydrogen Peroxide (or alcohol) with anything else.
Finally, gloves are a must. Before the scientists (and belatedly the CDC) said that the virus is transmitted through the fine spray of saliva which we all expel when talking, laughing, (Screaming), the scientists and CDC advised that the virus lives long enough on surfaces so that it can be transmitted by touch, whether to yourself or another surface or someone else. It doesn't die or break down as quickly as someone wrote in this thread. Please, gloves are a must! You don't need to wear vinyl or latex disposable gloves - they are hard to find these days. I wear cotton gloves when out of my sanctuary and wash them upon returning.
Best of luck to all of you at sea or forcibly docked or moored for the duration. I wish I was at sea.
Your information isn’t current or accurate. A direct copy/paste from the CDC:


“ Common question
How long does the coronavirus last on surfaces?

Coronaviruses on surfaces and objects naturally die within hours to days. Warmer temperatures and exposure to sunlight will reduce the time the virus survives on surfaces and objects. Normal routine cleaning with soap and water removes germs and dirt from surfaces.”

Gloves are NOT at all necessary. You can wash the virus right off your hands (or any surface ) with soap and water. Or, you could just wait a week or two at room temperature for the virus to be gone. . Very quickly in sunlight.

However, watch out for refrigerators and freezers preserving it.
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Old 26-07-2020, 17:49   #18
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Ann, it’s my belief that getting Covid is not necessarily going to happen. From other historical pandemics there is a lot of evidence that even if you get it, your much better off getting it towards the end of the Pandemic than the beginning. Again just from other pandemics, even way in the past for whatever reason the survival rate is higher and seriousness of the disease is less towards the end of the Pandemic than the beginning. But at the end of this thing whenever that is, there will be a huge number of people that didn’t contract it for whatever reason.

Then finally I know of no Pandemic that ended with even close to a 100% infection rate, that’s not how they end, they burn out, why they burn out I don’t know, I suspect there are several reasons.

Being a foreigner in a foreign land during a National Emergency of any kind is to say the least uncomfortable. Now if you have been there for so long that your part of the community, then of course it’s different, but no one trust strangers in times of panic and uncertainty, most will believe of course that it foreigners that are responsible for the disease.
Hopefully it won’t get to where everyone is burying a family member, because that’s when panic will be bad and yes they will want someone to blame.

I had an upset lady ask me what the hell was I doing there, didn’t I know that if just one of us was sick that “they” would all die? Now this was just after one of the PM speeches that to say the least upset some, but I felt that it would really be best if we left, up until then I had intended to stay until it was over, because word was initially that it would be a short term thing. I should have known better, ALL wars for instance it’s common knowledge when they start that they will be over before Christmas.
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Old 26-07-2020, 18:59   #19
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamaiden View Post
Anyone using hand sanitizer, please note the recent news reports (at least here in the Northeast) disclose that a number of hand sanitizers contain carcinogens. Bleach, even when diluted, is also toxic and not recommended for washing anything you ingest. Cleaning surfaces and non-eatables with 70% - 78% alcohol is the best. A higher concentration evaporates too quickly to kill the virus. When I can find them, I use the 70% alcohol swabs one can get at most pharmacies, but quantities are low. I believe either the CDC or EWG came out with a list of effective, non-harmful cleaners, some of which are a number of cleaning products made by 7th Generation. They are effective and at the same time safe for the environment, your animals and you. Hydrogen Peroxide also works (I am allergic to it) but note, NEVER mix Hydrogen Peroxide with vinegar as that will create caustic peracetic acid. Actually, never mix Hydrogen Peroxide (or alcohol) with anything else.
Finally, gloves are a must. Before the scientists (and belatedly the CDC) said that the virus is transmitted through the fine spray of saliva which we all expel when talking, laughing, (Screaming), the scientists and CDC advised that the virus lives long enough on surfaces so that it can be transmitted by touch, whether to yourself or another surface or someone else. It doesn't die or break down as quickly as someone wrote in this thread. Please, gloves are a must! You don't need to wear vinyl or latex disposable gloves - they are hard to find these days. I wear cotton gloves when out of my sanctuary and wash them upon returning.
Best of luck to all of you at sea or forcibly docked or moored for the duration. I wish I was at sea.
At the beginning of the pandemic a lot of questionable isopropyl and ethyl alcohol made it into the sanitizer market due to the huge spike in demand and lack of sufficient alcohol to fill it. A lot of "refined" fuel grade ethanol was sold for sanitizer use, some of which contained some nasty byproducts, some had a good bit of methyl alcohol which is definitely toxic. The FDA and TTB have cracked down and I think any sanitizer you buy off the shelf now is made with quality raw materials.

Regarding bleach, yes it is nasty stuff but it breaks down rather quickly and what little bleach is left on vegetables can be rinsed off. Unless you drink only purified water (hopefully not using plastic bottles for water) you are consuming small quantities of bleach every day. I don't like the taste but in the quantities typically found it's safer than the alternatives.

This opinion by the way comes from a health nut that buys mostly organic and natural produce.
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Old 26-07-2020, 19:15   #20
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

It isn't just the CDC's original analysis I was referring to, it is also the analysis and research of many other scientists worldwide. Given the vast amount of misinformation and obfuscation generated by the US government and its relevant agencies, I do not trust anything which comes from those sources. I especially do not trust the CDC backtracking it's own research results, even more so when the CDC had to be publicly shamed into acknowledging the virus is airborne and can be passed easily from our saliva spray. For a long time, after the scientific evidence had proved otherwise, the CDC denied this was a viable means of transmitting the virus.
The fact is, the virus does not die or become less viable quickly on surfaces. It is wishful thinking and dangerous to believe that it does. Further, there is substantial evidence that warmer weather has absolutely no ability to kill the virus. This was recently reported in the Boston Globe and/or the NY Times. I read both, so don't remember which one. If warmer weather could kill the virus, then countries like Africa, Brazil, and countries in the Middle East wouldn't have large outbreaks, but they do.
In the age of Trump, it is dangerous to believe any representations about the virus made by any branch or office of the US Federal government and many state governments.
Wisest course is to count on the worst and protect yourself, your loved ones and everyone you come in contact with. Thus all of us have the best chance for survival.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Your information isn’t current or accurate. A direct copy/paste from the CDC:


“ Common question
How long does the coronavirus last on surfaces?

Coronaviruses on surfaces and objects naturally die within hours to days. Warmer temperatures and exposure to sunlight will reduce the time the virus survives on surfaces and objects. Normal routine cleaning with soap and water removes germs and dirt from surfaces.”

Gloves are NOT at all necessary. You can wash the virus right off your hands (or any surface ) with soap and water. Or, you could just wait a week or two at room temperature for the virus to be gone. . Very quickly in sunlight.

However, watch out for refrigerators and freezers preserving it.
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Old 26-07-2020, 19:23   #21
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamaiden View Post
It isn't just the CDC's original analysis I was referring to, it is also the analysis and research of many other scientists worldwide. Given the vast amount of misinformation and obfuscation generated by the US government and its relevant agencies, I do not trust anything which comes from those sources. I especially do not trust the CDC backtracking it's own research results, even more so when the CDC had to be publicly shamed into acknowledging the virus is airborne and can be passed easily from our saliva spray. For a long time, after the scientific evidence had proved otherwise, the CDC denied this was a viable means of transmitting the virus.
The fact is, the virus does not die or become less viable quickly on surfaces. It is wishful thinking and dangerous to believe that it does. Further, there is substantial evidence that warmer weather has absolutely no ability to kill the virus. This was recently reported in the Boston Globe and/or the NY Times. I read both, so don't remember which one. If warmer weather could kill the virus, then countries like Africa, Brazil, and countries in the Middle East wouldn't have large outbreaks, but they do.
In the age of Trump, it is dangerous to believe any representations about the virus made by any branch or office of the US Federal government and many state governments.
Wisest course is to count on the worst and protect yourself, your loved ones and everyone you come in contact with. Thus all of us have the best chance for survival.
Would you believe the WHO over the CDC?
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Old 26-07-2020, 19:23   #22
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

I have read the CDC report and what you quoted is not what the CDC report said. Furthermore, while one should let things sit for several weeks, which I do, there are circumstances and needs which make doing that impossible. And I do wash my hands, all the time. It is exhausting, and despite then using hand cream, my hands, those of my family and friends, are raw. So if wearing gloves can help, it is an acceptable option. Also, I find that wearing gloves the few times I venture out helps to reduce my fear of getting this monstrous thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Your information isn’t current or accurate. A direct copy/paste from the CDC:


“ Common question
How long does the coronavirus last on surfaces?

Coronaviruses on surfaces and objects naturally die within hours to days. Warmer temperatures and exposure to sunlight will reduce the time the virus survives on surfaces and objects. Normal routine cleaning with soap and water removes germs and dirt from surfaces.”

Gloves are NOT at all necessary. You can wash the virus right off your hands (or any surface ) with soap and water. Or, you could just wait a week or two at room temperature for the virus to be gone. . Very quickly in sunlight.

However, watch out for refrigerators and freezers preserving it.
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Old 26-07-2020, 19:24   #23
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Between those two, the WHO, absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
Would you believe the WHO over the CDC?
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Old 26-07-2020, 19:35   #24
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamaiden View Post
Between those two, the WHO, absolutely.
Ahh...
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Old 26-07-2020, 19:58   #25
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

So..."Ahh" can mean, express many things. What is your "Ahh" saying?


Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
Ahh...
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Old 26-07-2020, 20:07   #26
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Well... if you are comfortable with that then I am glad for you. I am also a health nut, a vegan, only eat, drink organic and installed a water filter because the town water is god awful and very poorly rated by EWG. But I won't touch bleach. Honestly, take a look at the 7th Generation cleaning products.
Best of luck to you, to everyone out there. In my mind the safest place to be is sailing the deep blue seas.
'Night now....



Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
At the beginning of the pandemic a lot of questionable isopropyl and ethyl alcohol made it into the sanitizer market due to the huge spike in demand and lack of sufficient alcohol to fill it. A lot of "refined" fuel grade ethanol was sold for sanitizer use, some of which contained some nasty byproducts, some had a good bit of methyl alcohol which is definitely toxic. The FDA and TTB have cracked down and I think any sanitizer you buy off the shelf now is made with quality raw materials.

Regarding bleach, yes it is nasty stuff but it breaks down rather quickly and what little bleach is left on vegetables can be rinsed off. Unless you drink only purified water (hopefully not using plastic bottles for water) you are consuming small quantities of bleach every day. I don't like the taste but in the quantities typically found it's safer than the alternatives.

This opinion by the way comes from a health nut that buys mostly organic and natural produce.
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Old 26-07-2020, 20:32   #27
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

I envy you your 32 foot sloop and sailing all the time. It sounds as if you live aboard. If I could, I would. I love sloops above all other sailboats. The last time I sailed deep ocean was a long cruise off the West coast of Scotland. In my mind, the best sailing ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
Ahh...
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Old 27-07-2020, 00:40   #28
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franck Bavaria View Post
In Germany, the number of cases is low. It is just in the culture not to have much urge for body contact with others. We live normally, do not wear masks outdoors, wear masks in public indoor places, except for eating in restaurants, where tables are further apart than usual. People avoid touching too many things in shops, etc. Kids still play when th their friends. Yes there have been a number of cases in the neighbourhood but people just happily follow the routine without exaggerating or freeking out, and it just seems to work.
Being French, Germans give a good lecture of "savour vivre" on that topic. OK, there are also good hospital here as backup.
Everything you said. We're in Stuttgart, Germany and currently have no cases. Everything is open including schools. School vacations start next week. We still aren't having any fests, but hopefully it will be safe to have the Christmas markets. We're going on holiday to the south of France in a month.

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Old 27-07-2020, 01:36   #29
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

Quote:
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Would you believe the WHO over the CDC?

That's a trick question Right?
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Old 27-07-2020, 01:44   #30
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Re: Your New Priorities as a Liveaboard

On a Non Sailing Note, Its now Official - Australia has Resumed being a Penal Colony.


My wife (who is Dual British & Australian) needs to get back to the UK ASAP to see her dying mother and she is Not allowed to LEAVE the country (Australia), without applying for an exemption and she is basically in a Que in the cloud behind a million and one work exemption applications - She talked to border control and they said they could not help her she just needs to wait her turn.


I understand that they want to control people coming in (which you have to apply for as well), but leaving is really taking the Mickey



Such draconian and over reaching of Government is something that everyone should be concerned about, but from reading most of the views on this forum and on social media, sadly that is not the case
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