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Old 09-04-2017, 09:29   #1
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Predicting the tides?

Clearly important for shallow water sailing. People in landlocked states generally hear nothing about tides and currents and such.

I tried to find a scuba class, or book, covering tides and currents and such. Found nothing. Yet rip tides, and such, can be the end of the swimmer or diver. It was like they pretended that such things do not exist because it would scare too many people away.

I've been caught in a powerful current and it was close in some respects. I came up about 100 yards from my dinghy and casually flipped on my back and swam for a few minutes expecting to hit the dinghy at any time. Flipped back over and discovered that no apparent progress had been made.

Engaged in very determined swimming with the worst calve cramps imaginable. It was a real struggle and I have considered swimming from Florida to Cuba. Got to the dinghy and no longer had the strength to get over the rubber sides. Was barely able to crawl over the motor transom.

Newbies need to know about tides. Beaching a boat at the wrong angle will likely be the end of the boat when the next tide comes in. Good short course on tides somewhere?

I'm sure it has been discussed at some length, so has most everything else. Fresh discussions bring fresh information and liven things up.
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:24   #2
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Re: Predicting the tides?

Right after deploying the swim ladder, I always trail a super long floating rope from the boat, with several buoyant cushions attached to it, from astern. So folks can rest, & or reconnect with the boat.

Also, all swimming & diving activities take place upcurrent of the boat. Meaning forward of the bow. That way when you're tired, the boat's downhill.
When diving, it helps to leave someone with the boat if possible. Especially when drift diving. And of course divers need to carry items which aid in their being visible, & for signalling for help. Particularly as humans can be dang tough to spot in the water.

There are a plethora of free periodicals that cover tides & currents, with even more of them available online. And most surfing, & beach diving classes get into reading currents. Both from onshore, & on/in the water, especially when one's out past the break. Though of course verticality helps with visibility for reading them, as does one's choices in eyewear.

Also, underwater topography plays a HUGE role in where specific currents are, & their strength. So a bit of schooling on this, coupled with practice & coaching definitely helps one's proficiency in discerning things. And reef & current maps get updated fairly frequently in more heavily used locations.
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Old 09-04-2017, 12:01   #3
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Re: Predicting the tides?

Quote:
Originally Posted by softdown View Post
............
..................
Newbies need to know about tides. Beaching a boat at the wrong angle will likely be the end of the boat when the next tide comes in. ....
I used to careen by long keel boats regulaly for bottom cleaning and painting back in the 1970's & 80's. I would ground at a low tide that was followed by tides with increasing ranges. I'd do one side and then turn around at high tide and complete the other side,- cleaning as the water fell and painting from the bottom up.

I would select a sandy protected back side of a barrier beach with a steep incline and carefully insepct my choice spot for any rocks or debris. I would ground at high tide with my bow at an angle of about 30 degrees to shore to accommodate my cut-away forefoot. A truly full keel boat would sit more parallel to the shore.

I did take a line from my mast head to influence the lean to shore, but this is rarely needed. Under normal conditions the boat would not remain aground if leaning toward the water on a steep sandy bank, but the slim chance is not worth the risk.



'too much work for me now as an older sailor. I don't want to stay up all night for the tides and timing.
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Old 09-04-2017, 13:11   #4
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Re: Predicting the tides?

Smaller boat back then too I'd bet.
Lots more hair too?
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Old 09-04-2017, 13:26   #5
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Re: Predicting the tides?

Rip tides one encounters swimming seem to have little to do with "tidal change". You wont find those rips normally predicted in tide tables etc.
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Old 09-04-2017, 13:27   #6
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Re: Predicting the tides?

tides and times of tides??
not much to predict-they are scheduled forever--look up in google, your new pimp
tide schedules and a city for which you want to know tides ~~ is unvelievable frikking magic-- it is written.

oh and even more magic-- the amount of the tides is also written. it is + and - levels. or 0. has hours and minutes as well.
fun to read.
i like the one with the wavy graph.. most fun... donot have to read numbers too much. donot have to squint anteek eyeballs too much.
and it is funny these both come as lil pamphlet/booklets in some areas. i bet they canbe gotten online easily .
and donot forget the farmers almanac. you get tides all around the planet. is cool.
miracle.
oh yeah, dont ask me to figger it out-- i did ok only to ten in maths... be nice., i am having fun. you should as well.

aaahh yes . why pimp?? who loves to sell ye, baby!
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Old 09-04-2017, 13:37   #7
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Re: Predicting the tides?

Seems like every year in So Cal a few or more people are lost off the rock jetty's by a wave they didn't see coming. Warning signs are posted. A few months ago in Hawaii a father and daughter were lost the same way. Rips can occur almost any where wind and waves push water up on a beach as it needs a way to return to the ocean. Many people drown not paying attention to an incoming tide that catches them unprepared while exploring tidal pools. Most of us are aware of all of this but many visitors from land locked places don't have the experience and are unaware of the dangers.
Maybe someone with the skills can make a video of the dangers and have it shown in schools to spread the word.
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Old 09-04-2017, 14:15   #8
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Re: Predicting the tides?

Diesel Bill, rock fishing is dangerous in Australia. The regular radio broadcasts when there are dangerous surf condition.

But for the newbies, there are a couple of tide prediction programs around: Tides & Currents, which is good for New Caledonia, better there than the one we normally use: WXtide. There must be lots of apps.

If the newbie lives near water, most chandleries will have paper tide tables they can buy. Power boaters need to have them, too.

The rip tide and tide change issues depends a lot on where one is, local knowledge helps a lot. We once got caught by a tidal change, had to un-anchor the dinghy to be able to get into it. Creepy to remember.

Ann
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Old 09-04-2017, 14:58   #9
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Re: Predicting the tides?

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Diesel Bill, rock fishing is dangerous in Australia. The regular radio broadcasts when there are dangerous surf condition.

But for the newbies, there are a couple of tide prediction programs around: Tides & Currents, which is good for New Caledonia, better there than the one we normally use: WXtide. There must be lots of apps.

If the newbie lives near water, most chandleries will have paper tide tables they can buy. Power boaters need to have them, too.

The rip tide and tide change issues depends a lot on where one is, local knowledge helps a lot. We once got caught by a tidal change, had to un-anchor the dinghy to be able to get into it. Creepy to remember.

Ann
Hi Ann, Yes, I agree, Local knowledge is the best to have for a specific area.
I remember years ago little tide books for each year were free at most marine places.
My wife and I got into a bad situation 25 years ago down near Cabo. We were on a deserted beach with beautiful waves so we decided to do some body surfing. We waited for the largest of the set to pass and jumped in and swam out beyond the breakers to swim for a while. After catching a few waves we were getting tired and decided to get out of the water. The bottom was very steep and waves were breaking right up on the beach.
I thought we could wait out the big ones and then catch a smaller wave to get back on the beach. I badly misjudged the size of the waves and our ability to thread water. We were both getting fatigued and nobody was on the beach for a mile or more. Finally after what seemed like forever we caught a small wave and still got pounded at the surf line. After staggering up onto the sand we realized that we were only a couple of minutes from going under. That was a long time ago and we were in much better shape then. I don't think we would have survived if it was today.
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Old 09-04-2017, 15:12   #10
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Re: Predicting the tides?

Yes,

Preparation helps. And LUCK! Good on ya, and your good lady. But I'm sure people now can have easy access to tide information.

Ann
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Old 09-04-2017, 15:54   #11
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Re: Predicting the tides?

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Smaller boat back then too I'd bet.
Lots more hair too?
True, regarding the hair and the boat in the photo was my 33', but we used to careen in teams of four or five boats on the inside of Little Talbot Island just north of the Jax, Florida Ft. George Inlet. We had boats in the group from 28' to 45'. We would share the labor and cook out on the beach while waiting for the high tide to flip for the other side. 'not much sleep for us on the beach, but we were young and staying up for an all night work party was easy. We were also careful to leave the beach without a visible sign of our presence.

Anyone who has ever stood in the high edge of the wavelets along the shore line and felt your feet sink, molding into the sand, knows how well our hulls were supported as the sand conformed to the shape of our boats. This was mainly due to the strong current at this location.

A steep protected beach of sand without debris and a good current washing by allow for great careening possibilities.

Good times!
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Old 09-04-2017, 21:58   #12
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Re: Predicting the tides?

Underwater topography, both far away, & especially near you is a major, major factor in localized currents. Just think about how much the topography of the land affects wind direction, velocity, oscillations, etc. And then apply that kind of thinking to water.
However, there's the the caveat that water tends to need to "escape" much more often than does air/wind. Since wind is based primarily on the earth's rotational speed (night vs. day), along with differential heating & cooling (seasons). Where water needs to escape to some degree with each wave, & to an even greater volume, with each tide cycle. Plus it's incoming & escaping volume, & speed will also be affected by local weather, like storms.

For example, this is why Hawaii's North Shore is more popular amongst expert surfers in the Winter time. Oceanic storm systems from thousands of nm away stack up when they hit the island's shores.

You can learn to read much of it visually, sometimes by "cheating", by gaining elevation, such as in the drone footage in this thread http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ne-177408.html
And also by reading very accurate reef & bottom charts, ones which show lots of detail, & that are recent in datum. Which are tools commonly used by surfers & other watermen, since they provide so much information to those with a modicum of experience or knowledge. But with an even half practiced eye you can often spot such currents from the beach. Though it never hurts to check with wizened locals too.
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:03   #13
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Re: Predicting the tides?

I'm more educated and enlightened by all of you. Thx
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:23   #14
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Re: Predicting the tides?

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Rip tides one encounters swimming seem to have little to do with "tidal change". You wont find those rips normally predicted in tide tables etc.


"Rip tide or riptide, also known as an ebb jet or tidal jet, is a strong tidal flow of water within estuaries and other enclosed tidal areas.[1] The term "rip tide" or "riptide" is often incorrectly applied to rip currents, which are not tidal flows." (Wikipedia)

A perfect example is Destin FL. HUGE in and outflow through the channel (coming out of a very large Choctawhatchee Bay) twice a day and lots of swimming spots and places to anchor in or near the channel (Crab Island). The riptide there often exceeds 2 knots and can't be overcome by anyone but the strongest swimmers. I also leave someone on the boat and have a trailing rope. Sailing under the bridge is more challenging as well.

But the charts help - swim at high or low if possible.

https://www.tide-forecast.com/locati...a/tides/latest
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Old 10-04-2017, 03:53   #15
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Re: Predicting the tides?

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I tried to find a scuba class, or book, covering tides and currents and such. Found nothing.

Actually there is plenty about tides and currents on internet and there is also plenty "tides and currents" books around. not to mention YouTube.



http://www.bu.edu/pasi-tsunami/files...ides_Blain.pdf


http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/St...N/Chapt-09.pdf


https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/pu...FINAL11_30.pdf





books


https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ti...+books&spf=705
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