Novice Liveaboard Wannabee Dreamer

[sailorchic34]

One other thing about liveaboard slips. It pays to show up in person to ask about a liveaboard slip. Many marinas will say they have no liveaboard slips if you call.

They want to see the person(s) who will be living there and most of the time the actual boat too.

[jamestholtzinge]

To be brutally honest the Carver niche was the cheaper boat from the Bertram, Sea Ray, Hatteraus, and all other boats with living quarters. Most boats are built with diesel engines to cut down the amount of wiring and parts corroding. They don't have carburetors to gum up from nonuse diesels use jets. You will be pulling those two carbs off continually for maintenance in just cleaning them from residue from gasoline plus the fire, explosion risk. Diesel does not have the fumes that gasoline has and there fore you don't have to blow out the bilges before you start the engines. Diesel will burn and catch on fire but it won't explode like gas. Every spark plug in a gasoline engine is a huge attraction to salt water corrosion plus the distributor cap, plus the plugs, another eight spots for corrosion two engines 16 more spots. They have all ready covered the cost of gas. A friend of mine took his trawler over to the Exumas this winter and went as far south as Georgetown and spent $30,000 for fuel for four months. I have a 45' Gulfstar sailboat with a 50 horse diesel, I have two sails I can put them up if I want to save all fuel costs or I can motor like a motor boat. The other sail advantage is I have a keel at the bottom of my boat that will keep me upright in all most any wind and if I do go over it will bring me back up like a cork 12,000 lbs. or 6 ton). Downside is it makes my draft 5'4". To be honest most of the time when I have some place to go the wind is on the nose and you have to motor into the wind. Let's suppose I motor all the way to Georgetown and back I would spend approx.$1,300 in fuel. The rest is about the same. One thought would be almost every one has a starter boat but normally one would start with a smaller boat than one 42'. Take the time to take some safety boat courses and water safety classes. If I was you and you plan not to move it, buy the boat. If you want to do as you say it would behoove you to look around for a trawler. You can run it almost like a car except their are no brakes, except for reverse. The other option might be to take a sailing vacation and let them teach you how to sail, it can be done in a week. Call 612-750-5826 Diggerkatsail they will teach how to sail in a week, they are currently located in Key West. They summer in Lake Superior sail and teach. You can then sail over to Bimini for almost nothing. Most insurance companies won't sell you insurance if the boat is over 10 years old. I know of one. Edward Williams out of Spain. That is not a recommendation they will insure with out a survey. I use them but have never turned a claim in. I think you should spend the money for a survey or include it in your offer pending a favorable survey, before you buy the boat. The owner should all ready have one if he is serious about selling the boat. Good luck.

[chiefcoxswain]

Agree with Scout 30. old CHB Trawlers have the live aboard space and systems, a well maintained 40ft would be sufficient for your needs, wife. dog and I spend 3 months full time live aboard each year and several days each month year round here on the Australian east coast on our 1973 34ft Chung Hwa and this is not on a Marina (dock).
Get the survey, resale on these vessels is realistic, petrol Carvers another story.

[roland stockham]

For a liveaboard smaller better quality con be good. Cheaper boats may not be built to take the ware an tear of year round use. Also if you are mainly looking for a floating home spending lots of $$ on big engines that are mostly going to lie idle makes no sense. Engines often cause more problems when not run than when working hard, big ones come with big service bills as well as big fuel bills. With a trawler you are spending more on your accommodation and less on machinery.
Personally I would not consider any inboard petrol for safety reasons but that's just me, seen a few boat fires...

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

For a liveaboard smaller better quality con be good. Cheaper boats may not be built to take the ware an tear of year round use. Also if you are mainly looking for a floating home spending lots of $$ on big engines that are mostly going to lie idle makes no sense. Engines often cause more problems when not run than when working hard, big ones come with big service bills as well as big fuel bills. With a trawler you are spending more on your accommodation and less on machinery.
Personally I would not consider any inboard petrol for safety reasons but that's just me, seen a few boat fires...

Good point! Gas on a live aboard is a bad idea. Very dangerous. All it takes is 1 small leak to turn your home into a bomb. Diesel, on the other hand, is quite safe. It will smell bad if you get a leak but your boat won't blow up. However, you should know that diesel engines are very expensive to replace or rebuild. A new diesel can cost 10 times as much as a gas engine. But they last much longer, are much more reliable & are much more efficient. MY point is that just getting a survey is not enough with a diesel. Most surveyors will not evaluate the motor. You will need to hire a marine diesel mechanic to do that.

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Good point! Gas on a live aboard is a bad idea. Very dangerous. All it takes is 1 small leak to turn your home into a bomb. Diesel, on the other hand, is quite safe. It will smell bad if you get a leak but your boat won't blow up. However, you should know that diesel engines are very expensive to replace or rebuild. A new diesel can cost 10 times as much as a gas engine. But they last much longer, are much more reliable & are much more efficient. MY point is that just getting a survey is not enough with a diesel. Most surveyors will not evaluate the motor. You will need to hire a marine diesel mechanic to do that.

Second the comment about the survey. Same also applies to the electrical system, gas engine and anything else complex. Essentially all the basic survey does is reassure the insurers that the hull is sound! Often the surveyor may not even have turned on the instruments just reported that the boat has some. Case of spending a $ to save lots if there are problems.

Didn't realize there was such a difference in cost between gas and deisel engines here, explains their popularity. Don't thing you can buy gas boat engines in Europe except outboards, never been on a boat with one fitted. The lower weight may make sense on a fast planing hull I guess but even that is now marginal with lightweight turbos.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

For that kind of money you can get a trawler with a diesel that's better quality, more seaworthy, more reliable & much cheaper to run. Searching craigslist Portland I came up with 71 trawlers for sale under $80,000. Most were well under that price. With the right trawler you could run up to Puget Sound, cruise the San Juan Islands or run the inside passage to Alaska.


Grand Banks are my favorite too but they are more expensive than most. A 36' GB would be hard to find this cheap unless there is a problem with condition. Pre '74 they have wood hulls. The teak decks & iron tanks can be a problem. I'd look for one where that's been addressed already.


Most of the trawlers from the 70's & 80's were built in Hong Kong or Taiwan. Watch for bad decks, rot around the windows & bad fuel tanks. Most had Ford Lehmans which can still be running well. A good survey is key.


If you don't need to go fast get a boat designed to go slow.

What he said.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by laroo22

Hello!

I was surfing the net looking for floating homes when I noticed a 42' Carver that struck me as a dandy place to call home. I grew up on boats and am comfortable with the lifestyle, but have very little experience with the practical aspects.

<snip>

Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.


Thanks,
Laura

Words are free - you'll have to decide if there is any wisdom in them.

First of all nice boat! Good luck if you go through with it.

Second - That thing has windage like a barn. Sailorchic provides wise counsel on boat handling.

Originally Posted by laroo22

Thanks Sailorchick!

I'm thinking I could afford the fuel because I wouldn't take it out often. My last water dwelling was a floating home and it's a huge hassle to move those!

I'm happy just being on the water and tooling around on my paddle board and kayak. Once I got comfortable behind the controls, I'd probably do a two week trip and a couple day cruises a year.

What other stuff should I be thinking about?

If you are just looking for a place to "live" cheaply you should seriously consider if you need all the systems that are on this boat.

Even when not used boat systems deteriorate. Twin engines, on-board generator etc. etc. all seem like "extras" that you won't use much. But when that day comes when you want to motor out you don't want to find out an engine is not working.

Twin screw is nice for boat handling but you have twice as many systems to take care of.

I think there is good advice about thinking single screw diesel. Fewer systems and a much lower fuel bill when you do go out.

Originally Posted by Scout 30

For that kind of money you can get a trawler with a diesel that's better quality, more seaworthy, more reliable & much cheaper to run. Searching craigslist Portland I came up with 71 trawlers for sale under $80,000. Most were well under that price. With the right trawler you could run up to Puget Sound, cruise the San Juan Islands or run the inside passage to Alaska.

<snip>

If you don't need to go fast get a boat designed to go slow.

Unrefueled range is another consideration. Diesel trawlers seem to win in that category.

I have a buddy with a twin gas cabin boat. One day on the water can run $300-$600

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by laroo22

My fanciful self thinks maybe I should buy the thing, move in and learn the nuts and bolts as I go. It's a good deal cheaper than a floating home and I like the idea of being able to move easily...once I learn to pilot the thing.

Carver is well known for making the most of interior space. The brand is similar in quality to Sea Ray, Silverton, Cruisers, etc. (Not Hatteras, Viking, or the original Bertram.) Which in turn mean very decent quality for price, but not over-the-top.

The decision about gas versus diesel usually comes down to how you will use the boat. Lots o' hours underway suggests diesel; occasional movements, gas is significantly less expensive.

Gas is safe, assuming you respect it and follow the rules about venting, keep up with normal maintenance, etc. Bazillions of liveaboards live on gas boats.

Unless the current owners can show recent replacements, you'll likely need to replace exhaust manifolds and risers; corrosion there happens from the inside and you can't see it, so many owners replace those parts every 5 years in salt water.

The common way to buy boats is to hire a marine surveyor to look at the hull and most systems... and an engine surveyor (familiar with the engine brand) to do a mechanical survey. It's also common to immediately tune/service the engines if you buy it. It's also good to immediately detail the engine room; from that point you'll want to be able to more easily monitor for oil leaks and so forth, and a clean engine room aids that. If the boat has any odors, a squeaky clean engine room can aid that, too.

Yes, you can learn nuts and bolts as you go. You'd likely become plumber and electrician, along with various boating skills (piloting, navigation, etc.). There are courses for all that stuff, including engine work. Coast Guard Auxiliary and the US Power Squadrons are especially useful resources.

-Chris

[bretto55]

Hi,
Come to Australia. Boats are very cheap ATM.

[GILow]

Really? I keep looking at the prices being quoted in the US and thinking how good they are.

Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by bretto55

Hi,
Come to Australia. Boats are very cheap ATM.

Anyone remember the recent thread where the guy from Australia bought a sailboat on EBay with hopes of sailing it back down under. I'm trying to remember but I believe he said in an interview that the boat he bought for around $10,000 would sell for a couple of hundred grand in Australia. there have been a couple of other recent threads where Australians bought boats in the US with the plan to sail them back to Australia.

[a64pilot]

Used to have a 36' Sportfisherman that had twin Merc 454's
Fuel cost was high, but cost of the boat was about half of what a comparable Diesel boat would have been. I'm a good mechanic so once I got them tuned well, they ran like Swiss watches, until we sold the boat a few years later.
If your going to run it a lot, buy a Diesel, if it's primarily to be a living space, save a lot of money and buy a gas boat.

[nautinurse]

There is a new magazine coming out focused on the liveaboard lifestyle. It's called Liveaboard Digest and will have its first publication in April 2015. They should have lots of useful information on living aboard and making the decision to liveaboard. They are also looking for liveaboards / experienced boaters that are willing to write articles and columns. They can be contacted by email at liveaboard.digest@gmail.com or by phone at 201-731-BOAT (2628). They said that their website should be up and running by the 1st of April and will be www.liveaboard-digest.com.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Anyone remember the recent thread where the guy from Australia bought a sailboat on EBay with hopes of sailing it back down under. I'm trying to remember but I believe he said in an interview that the boat he bought for around $10,000 would sell for a couple of hundred grand in Australia. there have been a couple of other recent threads where Australians bought boats in the US with the plan to sail them back to Australia.

Well, there was a bit of a dreamer aspect to all that, let's face it, the so called bargain boats often turn out to be a lot more expensive than they first appeared. But yes, I would say boats are a lot more expensive here in Australia, though not to the degree some would assert. Where I have been able to compare apples with applies I would say there is a good 30% to 60% premium in Australia on the sort of stuff I like.

And the choice is relatively limited. I notice that many of the makes and models of smaller boats that are universally recommended by CF members simply do not appear in Australian boat listings. A pity, because many of them look very good indeed.

Matt