My boating dreams are destroyed

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by rsementi

Sb 192 says that? That’s not what I’ve read. I’m not aware of the 327.4108, I’ll look it up. But, to answer your question, my boat is currently legal to anchor where it is. It’s not a derelict, it’s running fine. It only needs interior work, etc.

If you can periodically move the boat around and show evidence of proper pumpouts, it should be possible to avoid issues. It'll just take a little bit of careful reading to determine what all of the relevant laws (both new and existing) consider to be a problem and how to best avoid running afoul of those restrictions.

[Montanan]

Of issue as to the detailed interpretation of the 200 yard regulation - is that measured from where the anchor is set, or does it apply to the swing distance as floating in the water.

Depending on the scope of rode that is released that could be a very large difference.

And note it only applies between the two designated State Roads that cross the bay. If one is north or south of that zone this regulation does not seem to apply, albeit there may be other regulations that are applicable to the other zones of Biscayne Bay.

[sailorboy1]

I have widely traveled Florida East and West coasts the last 7 years and greatly support laws that clean up the POS anchored out boat problems

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by rsementi

Sb 192 says that? That’s not what I’ve read. I’m not aware of the 327.4108, I’ll look it up. But, to answer your question, my boat is currently legal to anchor where it is. It’s not a derelict, it’s running fine. It only needs interior work, etc.

Is there a problem with moving your boat at least 1 mile every 45 days? I realize you may not want to, but can you?

I think you need to read the ordnances carefully. The amendment allowing electronic proof of movement at least once each 45 days is an amendment to an over riding ordnance that defined legal anchoring. I have not read the underlying bill, but chances are you are not a legal anchor out if you've been in the same spot indefinitely. Only thing that has changed is the amendment makes it easier to defend yourself if LEO assert you haven't moved when you believe you have.

As long as your boat is indeed mobile, you should be fine. If it's not, well, you're not fine - you would be part of the derelict group of anchor-outs that communities all across Florida have been trying to eject (with good reason).

[DirtPete]

Originally Posted by rsementi

The tyrants of our Florida legislature and the local Miami Beach tyrants are about to outlaw ALL anchored boats around Miami Beach and over areas north like Fort Lauderdale and Dania beach. I can’t afford to pay for a dock slip. That’s why my boat is anchored in biscayne bay nearby Miami Beach. I’ve already spent a lot of money restoring her, and I have a lot to go. But I can’t afford to dock it and pay for my resto work.
But I thought that after almost 250 years of being a free country, I didn’t plan for this tyranny to destroy my pursuit of happiness and my livelihood, since I planned to charter with it to stay alive.

I’ve reached out to Wally Moran as I recall he was at the forefront of fighting with our state government. But we really need a constitutional lawyer since this bill soon to be law the bill violates the concept of "presumed innocence" by requiring a boater to prove that they have not violated the law, instead of the officer having to prove that you did. This is a direct violation of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The bill is HB437 but when I google it I get a different law. Any ideas out there?

Sell the boat and buy one you can afford, or give up the dream.

[SailingHarmonie]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Of issue as to the detailed interpretation of the 200 yard regulation - is that measured from where the anchor is set, or does it apply to the swing distance as floating in the water.

Really? This is just fo'c's'le lawyering.

200 yards is 600 feet. I don't much imagine anybody giving you official grief because you are 580 feet from shore. If you assume the conservative option it is the position of the boat instead of the anchor, just anchor 700 feet from shore with less than a 15 to one scope.

The solution to this is really simple, in my experience with water cops in Florida they are professional and more than happy to help responsible boaters who make an effort to do the right thing. If they say you are not in the right place, just ASK where do you want me? I'll be happy to move... Been there. Done that. It worked just fine.

[jkishel]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I read the link above. It is an amendment to another bill (327.4108) that I did not read. I surmise that 327.4108 defines anchor limits.The only thing this amendment does is provide the anchored vessel a means to immediately demonstrate that they have been anchored within compliance of 327.4108. It would be sort of like a dash-cam video to show the police that you didn't run a red light.

I'm sorry for your troubles, but are you in compliance with the original limitations defined in 328.4108? Or were the anchored vessels using loopholes to bypass compliance?

To clarify, the currently proposed legislation SB 192 does two things that are relevant to this discussion:

1) Expands existing anchoring limitation areas established under state law to include the entire area of Biscayne Bay between the MacArthur and Juliet Tuttle Causeways within 200 yards from the Miami Beach city limits. Within this area anchoring between 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise will be prohibited with exceptions for inclement weather, emergency vessels, fishing, etc. This has been the case for several years for smaller areas between the Venetian Islands, Sunset Lake and part of the New River. The 45 day, 1 mile, GPS documentation provisions do not relate to these state law-established anchoring limitation areas.

2) Adds 45 day, 1 mile documentation provisions for other anchoring limitation areas established by counties pursuant to existing law. Several of these have been established and more are proposed. Monroe County has a 90 day provision.

So, SB 192, if enacted, will effectively ban overnight anchoring west of the south half of Miami Beach beginning on July 1, 2024. This area is currently occupied by about 100 vessels, some live aboard, some stored, some derelict, at least 1 sunk.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by jkishel

1) Expands existing anchoring limitation areas established under state law to include the entire area of Biscayne Bay between the MacArthur and Juliet Tuttle Causeways within 200 yards from the Miami Beach city limits. Within this area anchoring between 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise will be prohibited with exceptions for inclement weather, emergency vessels, fishing, etc. This has been the case for several years for smaller areas between the Venetian Islands, Sunset Lake and part of the New River. The 45 day, 1 mile, GPS documentation provisions do not relate to these state law-established anchoring limitation areas.

I don't have a dog in this fight (my residence is on the ICW on the other side of the state). But my community, like all in Florida, are working to figure out a decent balance to encourage cruisers without encouraging derelicts.

When I read the Amendment (HERE), I did not see the words supporting the sweeping changes you suggest. First - the 1/2-hour before/after sunset. Actual language suggests this is codification of a grandfathered requirement so, if true, isn't a change at all. Now, I have no idea if this is true or not, just what the words say.

Second, applicable area. This was actually mostly narrowed in area - the language was originally aplied to an area bounded by several islands. This was narrowed to only be those areas within 200-yards of shore. Of the seven islands listed, two were added as new. The other five were in the original language.

Now, I don't know this area so it's possible changing this to 200-yards from shore is a distinction without a difference. All I can do is read the words. It sounds like there are some puts and takes that clarify the original law it amends.

Peter

[jkishel]

Originally Posted by Montanan

The limitation of anchoring only applies to within 200 yards of the shoreline.

Presumably if one is further away this restriction would not apply or do not lay between the State Road A1A and State Road 112.

327.4108 Anchoring of vessels in anchoring limitation
areas.—
(1) The following densely populated urban areas, which
have narrow state waterways, residential docking facilities, and
significant recreational boating traffic, are designated as and
shall be considered to be grandfathered-in anchoring limitation
areas, within which a person may not anchor a vessel at any time
during the period between one-half hour after sunset and one-
half hour before sunrise, except as provided in subsections (4)
and (5):
(c) The sections of Biscayne Bay in Miami-Dade County that
are within 200 yards of any part of the shore of the City of
Miami Beach lying between State Road A1A and State Road 112

There are few, if any, places more than 200 yards from the shore of Miami Beach between the two causeways.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by jkishel

There are few, if any, places more than 200 yards from the shore of Miami Beach between the two causeways.

If one stays in the center of the Biscayne Bay and near the northern State Road 112 causeway it seems like there is room to anchor. Albeit not for 100 boats unless they are on very short lengths of rode.

Nearer to the islands that lay to the south of the Bay and north of the A1A would fall within the 200 yard limits. Presuming that those islands are part of the shoreline of the City of Miami Beach.

Looks like a place where mooring should be established and rented.

[jkishel]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I don't have a dog in this fight (my residence is on the ICW on the other side of the state). But my community, like all in Florida, are working to figure out a decent balance to encourage cruisers without encouraging derelicts.

When I read the Amendment (HERE), I did not see the words supporting the sweeping changes you suggest. First - the 1/2-hour before/after sunset. Actual language suggests this is codification of a grandfathered requirement so, if true, isn't a change at all. Now, I have no idea if this is true or not, just what the words say.

Second, applicable area. This was actually mostly narrowed in area - the language was originally aplied to an area bounded by several islands. This was narrowed to only be those areas within 200-yards of shore. Of the seven islands listed, two were added as new. The other five were in the original language.

Now, I don't know this area so it's possible changing this to 200-yards from shore is a distinction without a difference. All I can do is read the words. It sounds like there are some puts and takes that clarify the original law it amends.

Peter

It is necessary to read the original law along with the proposed changes in order to understand it. Existing law bans overnight anchoring between several of the Venetian islands. This change extends the overnight ban to within 200 yards of the shore of the City between the two causeways (3.5 miles apart). There are 9 islands in this area mostly about 200 to 400 yards apart. A 200 yard buffer around all of these islands covers essentially the entire area that is currently used as an anchorage. There are about 100 boats in this area, many derelict, most have not moved for months or years.

[NorthCoastJoe]

If it is anything like Richardson's bay in California, the cleanup is well overdue. If I find myself in the same spot anywhere for 45+ days something is very wrong.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by rsementi

The bill is now called senate bill 192. I’m anchored out in Biscayne bay. July 1st they will be patrolling the area and removing boats.
This is the link https://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Secti...&SessionId=103

I’m doomed.

You have 5 months to get your vessel operable to the point it can make a one mile trip once every 45 days.

If you can't do that with a boat that is already in the water, your sailing dream was over before it began.

[Tin Tin]

Obviously there is no desire to move the boat every 45 days, then the spot will be lost to another boat.

[SV_FlyingTigress]

Originally Posted by Tin Tin

Obviously there is no desire to move the boat every 45 days, then the spot will be lost to another boat.

I think that is the point. There needs to be the opportunity for churn. The anchorage spot isn't the personal property of a single boat in perpetuity.